From richb Thu Mar 21 12:29:19 1991 Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08508; Thu, 21 Mar 91 12:29:19 EST Message-Id: <9103210229.AA08508@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1991 12:29:18 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Welcome to the faces mailing list. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ This is the introductory message for the faces mailing list. As you probably already know... Faces is a program for monitoring a list visually. Typically this is a list of incoming mail messages, jobs in the print queue or users on a system. Faces has the ability to read compressed faces images embedded in your mail headers, uncompressing them and displaying them on-the-fly. There are graphical interfaces for X11, XView, SunView and NeWS. This mailing list is to: - generate new patches for faces with a faster turnaround then is generally appreciated on the net. - check that faces is portable, and correctly runs on a variety on Unix machines. - solicit help from other people in fixing the bugs, and implementing the suggestions for enhancements that are listed in the TODO file. - promote discussion on faces; suggestions on how to implement new features, tricks used in running faces or in setting it up. To actively share faces expertise. ------ The address of the mailing list is: faces@Aus.Sun.COM This should be equivalent to: faces@sunaus.sun.oz.au but the first address is prefered, and should be much faster. Should you have any administrative problems with the mailing list, then the proper address to send them to is: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM -or- faces-request@sunaus.sun.oz.au although mailing them direct to me will probably work. I've also set it up so that messages sent to the mailing list are archived. How to make those archives subsequently available is another question, which I'll deal with at a later date (when there is sufficient material archived). There are currently seventeen names on the alias, plus one exploder, plus the archive entry. --------- As a start to finding out exactly where faces is currently at, I've just gone through my faces mail folder, and added in all the bugs, suggestions, fixes and enhancements I'd received, which weren't already in the TODO file. These are listed below, and will be officially included with the TODO file in the next patch. If your favorite problem/suggestion isn't on this list, please let me know and I'll add it. Apologies if I've inadvertently omitted any. The TODO file is now almost double the size. --------- I will be going overseas for seven weeks on April 7th. Before then I'd like to get out one more patch. I'd also like to allow two or three days after that, just in case I have to send out a fixup patch for anything I may have broken in that patch. Rich Burridge, DOMAIN: richb@Aus.Sun.COM Sun Microsystems. ACSNET: richb@sunaus.sun.oz PHONE: +61 2 911 4212 UUCP: {uunet,mcvax,ukc}!munnari!sunaus.oz!richb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- New TODO entries: * From John Buckle With faces v1.4, I've been having trouble in sorting out my faces directory path. On the old version (v1.3) I used -f .faces, this meant that my directory was searched last which also meant that my misc. face was used. Using FACEPATH I haven't been able to do this, it either seems to use one directory or the other, but not both. FACEPATH=:.faces - uses /n/faces/misc. for things stored .faces FACEPATH=.faces: - uses my misc. for things in /n/face Further comment from John Mackin This effectively means that under 1.4, you cannot have your own misc./unknown icons. The first directory in the FACEPATH to contain a misc./unknown icon will be the last directory searched; any directories after that will be silently ignored. An unfortunate sude-effect of the make_iconname() routine. * From Amir J. Katz I think that it should be mentioned in the faces man page that every xterm started under X will show on 'xfaces -h localhost' as a new user, unless you start xterm with the '-ut' option. I know it's an RTFM issue but xterm man page is so looooong, so I am sure most people fall asleep long before they reach the '-ut' option... * From Lindsay F. Marshall With the X11 version under twm, there is a notitle white line problem. Also seen under Open Windows. This shows up as a thick white line along the bottom of my faces window. The white bar at the bottom is exactly twm title sized...... * From Lindsay F. Marshall The button1clear bug is weird - you click button1, nothing happens until you click button two!! * From Eric Negaard I have been working on a user program for use with faces (to display mail in a POP mailbox) and I noticed what I think is a bug. The code in do_prog does not update the icon image, so the faces icon always displays the NOMAIL icon. My fix was to change the add_face(DISP_BOTH, ...) to add_face(DISP_ALL, ...). * From John B. Melby If one creates a directory "edu" in the faces directory, it does not have any effect on a domain address in which EDU is capitalized. It seems to me that "faces" should not pay any attention to the case of a domain name (since case is only supposed to be significant in the user name). From John Mackin The comparison when looking up the domain in the faces directory appears to be case-sensitive. This is wrong per RFC822, domain-parts are case-insensitive. Both the directory name and the host name from the mail item should be downcased before comparison. From Peter Gray When comparing the domain of the mail with the machine.tab entries strcasecmp should be used since mail addresses are case invarient. * From John Mackin If you have a machine.tab entry in an earlier directory in FACEPATH instead of a symlink, further directories down the FACEPATH are not searched. * From John Mackin With faces v1.4.13, I am having a repeatable problem with faces starting up with the window being all white. Then if I give it a toggle button (e.g.) it draws what it should contain. * From Mike Bolotski We've made (and are planning to make more) changes to the faces package. Some changes: - add flag to allow faces to be compiled to always run -U. - added EXCLUDE_UPDATE_DOMAIN so that mail from local users does not result in continuous updates - fixed icon2ikon to understand the icon format as output by the PBM package (no leading 0x) - fixed icon2ikon to extract the center 48 pixels instead of just the top 48. Planned changes: - change the basic data structure to either a hash table or a balanced tree - automatic clearing of old faces once the mail has been read (does that exist already?) - hooks to emacs (RMAIL and VM) to allow automatic X-Face inclusion) - lots more, since several students at the AI Lab are fascinated by the package. * Include mention of Steve Kinzlers' anon ftp service for the faces database in the README file. * Mention the faces mailing list in the README file. * Include Steve Kinzlers' scripts and filters in the generic faces distribution. These include: ikon2xbm, xbm2ikon bitmaps filters for Blit ikon and X11 bitmaps lpqall.sh, lpqall customized "faces -e" script for monitoring all printers mailq customized "faces -e" script for monitoring the system sendmail queue * From Philip Gladstone In the top level Makefile, you allow specification of FMONTYPE. The code in main.c checks for FBMONTYPE. Also the definition of FMONTYPE=0 and =1 are reversed. * From Jim Rees It would be nice if the compression and uncompression routines were separated into different source files, so that if I want to include just the uncompression in my mailer, I don't have to include the compression stuff too. * From Ian Darwin Need to do a version of faces for tNt v2.0. * Better handling of the number of characters to use for display the text on the faces icons, especially with variable width fonts. * From Chris Steinbroner From Philip Colmer Loading xfaces fails because XSetWMProtocols() does not exist on my system. It's an X11R4 routine. * From Sam Drake Set of diffs to get the X11 version of faces working on the RISC System/6000 under AIX 3.1. Both mail and logon monitoring work; I haven't tried print queue monitoring yet. * From Michael Schmidt With NIS (YP domain fb17i, mail domain uni-paderborn.de) I want to put a line "fb17i=uni-paderborn.de" in the machine.tab, so that for all hosts in the YP domain faces are looked up under their mail domain. [Set of diffs included]. * From Ken Wood Details of how to generate X-Face: headers from within GNU Emacs. Needs to be added to the README file. * From Lindsay F. Marshall Would it be possible to have a define (or option) that allowed us to set the X title/name attributes. I want the program to be called "Faces" in my twm iconManager and it is currently called "faces". I haven't found any way of changing it other than by hacking the code. * From Lindsay F. Marshall Some suggestions: - people.tab/machine.tab per face database - caching of icons to reduce file accesses - re-reading people.tab/machine.tab when modified - access to gnu finger (face) service THE END. From philip@bigben.dle.dg.com Thu Mar 21 22:23:07 1991 Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10625; Thu, 21 Mar 91 22:22:55 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28864; Thu, 21 Mar 91 22:23:53 EST Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08986; Thu, 21 Mar 91 04:23:43 PST Received: from bigben.dle.dg.com by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.64+/dg-rtp-proto) id AA14870; Thu, 21 Mar 91 07:23:13 EST Received: from beeblebrox.dle.dg.com (beeblebrox) by bigben.dle.dg.com (4.30/dg-g01) id AA01701; Thu, 21 Mar 91 12:23:09 gmt via SMTP Received: by beeblebrox.dle.dg.com (4.30/dg-pjsg.02) id AA00957; Thu, 21 Mar 91 12:23:06 gmt Date: Thu, 21 Mar 91 12:23:06 gmt From: philip@bigben.dle.dg.com (Philip Gladstone) Message-Id: <9103211223.AA00957@beeblebrox.dle.dg.com> Organization: Development Lab Europe, Data General To: Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk Cc: faces@Aus In-Reply-To: Lindsay "F." Marshall's message of Thu, 21 Mar 91 10:12:52 GMT Subject: X-Face >>>>> On Thu, 21 Mar 91 10:12:52 GMT, Lindsay "F." Marshall said: Lindsay> Are Rich and I the only people who use this? I have never received a Lindsay> mail message from anyone else that uses it. I hope all the subscribers Lindsay> to the list will have one when they post. I have no face (does that make me one of the faceless masses?). I just use the bitmap collection from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu to show peoples organisations. As far as I am concerned, I'd like to see more bitmaps in that collection. Also, the quipu directory service has the capability for storing faces in it, but the size can be anything you like. Unfortunately, the compression method that they have chosen is not very efficient -- in particular in the majority of cases, each input bit is represented by more than one output bit!! Philip From Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk Thu Mar 21 22:11:26 1991 Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10301; Thu, 21 Mar 91 22:11:17 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27748; Thu, 21 Mar 91 22:12:18 EST Received: from by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB08004; Thu, 21 Mar 91 04:12:11 PST Received: from newcastle.ac.uk by sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk via JANET with NIFTP id <13934-2@sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>; Thu, 21 Mar 1991 11:36:36 +0000 Received: from stobhill by uk.ac.newcastle; Thu, 21 Mar 91 10:22:00 GMT From: Lindsay "F." Marshall Message-Id: Subject: X-Face To: faces@Aus (Faces Mailing List) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 91 10:12:52 GMT X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTnX.%%nlD SrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SUq Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11654; Fri, 22 Mar 91 07:52:03 EST Received: from stard.Aus.Sun.COM by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16644; Fri, 22 Mar 91 07:53:05 EST Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11650; Fri, 22 Mar 91 07:51:57 EST Message-Id: <9103212151.AA11650@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1991 07:51:56 +1000 In-Reply-To: Philip Gladstone's message as of Mar 21, 12:23pm. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: philip@bigben.dle.dg.com (Philip Gladstone), Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk Subject: Re: X-Face Cc: faces@Aus X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ } I have no face (does that make me one of the faceless masses?). I just } use the bitmap collection from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu to show peoples } organisations. As far as I am concerned, I'd like to see more bitmaps } in that collection. I sent Steve Kinzler ~350Kbytes of compressed face images a little while ago by anon ftp to his Indiana site. They don't appear to be there anymore. Steve, would it be possible to add your bitmap images, and that large collection together, and make that available via anon ftp? Similarily, I can anon ftp put these images, if you'd like to give me your hostnames. It's a pity Sun doesn't have an ftp site where they can be gotten from. Sigh! From @littlei.hf.intel.com:adams@trim.intel.com Fri Mar 22 08:38:25 1991 Return-Path: <@littlei.hf.intel.com:adams@trim.intel.com> Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11708; Fri, 22 Mar 91 08:38:25 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21705; Fri, 22 Mar 91 08:39:24 EST Received: from hermes.intel.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26653; Thu, 21 Mar 91 14:39:19 PST Received: by hermes.intel.com (5.57/10.0i); Thu, 21 Mar 91 14:14:29 PST Received: by littlei.hf.intel.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.17.5 #17.17); Thu, 21 Mar 91 14:21 PST Message-Id: From: adams@trim.intel.com Date: Thu, 21 Mar 91 14:22 PST To: faces@Aus Subject: Re: X-Faces libraries Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1403 On Fri, 22 Mar 91 07:51:56 PST, richb@Aus.Sun.COM wrote: > I sent Steve Kinzler ~350Kbytes of compressed face images a little while > ago by anon ftp to his Indiana site. They don't appear to be there anymore. > > Steve, would it be possible to add your bitmap images, and that large > collection together, and make that available via anon ftp? > > Similarily, I can anon ftp put these images, if you'd like to give me > your hostnames. It's a pity Sun doesn't have an ftp site where they can be > gotten from. Sigh! We might also consider making "collections" that are kept in separate face directory trees so that they can easily be updated and managed. I find keeping everything in one tree makes it hard to figure out what I have modified and what is part of one of the collections I've loaded ("Oh, no, the new logo collection overlayed my hand crafted emblem for Faraway State University!"). There would be the "corporate, university, national logo" collection, the "net personality" collection, your local site collection, etc. faces -fpersonalities:corps:local:default ... -- Robert Adams adams@littlei.intel.com X-Face: %#`:});v)?H>f3y(PwZ-43Et2'zE!}r!V`$:/-\en+z::[Xh.U:/YrT."8} o>i92jd9>#\=U:yr='lGRfG-R}o0X8<_@@0[)MRb*p@8>At>c*X6tq@QfP.Z!wri:#1(I_yqf=r0&^ :sJI^B1k^i(RjES!Yg%g> Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12359; Fri, 22 Mar 91 11:04:43 EST Message-Id: <9103220104.AA12359@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1991 11:04:42 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: sun-spots-request@titan.rice.edu Subject: Sample faces database for faces, the visual mail monitor. Cc: faces X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Hi, I've just down loaded faces.tar.Z and facedir.tar.Z, two compressed tar files, into the "incoming" directory on titan.rice.edu. Could you please move this where ever you want, making it available via anon ftp and your mail server, and announce it in comp.sys.sun? Many thanks. ------ faces.tar.Z is the faces program. This is v1.4, at patchlevel #13. Faces is a program for monitoring a list visually. Typically this is a list of incoming mail messages, jobs in the print queue or users on a system. Faces has the ability to read compressed faces images embedded in your mail headers, uncompressing them and displaying them on-the-fly. There are graphical interfaces for X11, XView, SunView and NeWS. facedir.tar.Z is a sample faces database for the faces program. A mailing list has just been started for faces; if anybody would like to join, then please send me a note. Rich Burridge, DOMAIN: richb@Aus.Sun.COM Sun Microsystems. ACSNET: richb@sunaus.sun.oz PHONE: +61 2 911 4212 UUCP: {uunet,mcvax,ukc}!munnari!sunaus.oz!richb From richb Fri Mar 22 11:12:47 1991 Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12376; Fri, 22 Mar 91 11:12:47 EST Message-Id: <9103220112.AA12376@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1991 11:12:46 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Followup on the note to the Sun-Spots moderator. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Just a few more details regarding the sample faces database I've put in the "incoming" directory on titan.rice.edu. * There are things in that directory dating back to September 1990, so even if the moderator doesn't do anything, this seems a nice place to put the latest database. People with ftp access, should be able to immediately get it from this directory on titan. * I've incorporated Steve Kinzlers' images into this database. In the case where there was already a 48x48x1 or a sun.icon file existing in the database, I've replaced it with Steve's face.xbm files. * The whole of the database should really be converted to face.xbm format until a satisfactory solution to the REVORDER problem is found. The xbm format is character based, and therefore doesn't suffer from byte reversal problems. I'll try to find the time to do this next week. Steve's ikon2xbm script (which will be in the next patch), should make this job easy. * If anybody has any more images to add to the database, please send them on down. I'll periodically update it, and put a new version on titan. From kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Sat Mar 23 14:11:09 1991 Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17290; Sat, 23 Mar 91 14:11:09 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19595; Sat, 23 Mar 91 14:12:09 EST Received: from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17806; Fri, 22 Mar 91 20:12:04 PST Message-Id: <9103230412.AA17806@Sun.COM> Received: by iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Date: Fri, 22 Mar 91 23:11:50 -0500 From: Steve Kinzler To: richb@Aus, philip@bigben.dle.dg.com Subject: Re: X-Face Cc: faces@Aus Written by richb@aus.sun.com,philip@bigben.dle.dg.com in mail:faces@aus.sun.com +---------- "Re: X-Face" ---------- | } I have no face (does that make me one of the faceless masses?). I just | } use the bitmap collection from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu to show peoples | } organisations. As far as I am concerned, I'd like to see more bitmaps | } in that collection. | I sent Steve Kinzler ~350Kbytes of compressed face images a little while | ago by anon ftp to his Indiana site. They don't appear to be there anymore. Rich, you can upload your database of face images to iuvax.cs.indiana.edu in pub/faces/incoming and other folks can ftp or mailserv it from there. You can upload the software and patches, too, if you'd like. | Steve, would it be possible to add your bitmap images, and that large | collection together, and make that available via anon ftp? Maybe we should keep these separate since some people may want only one or the other. They can be joined together fairly easily if desired -- or both used via $FACEPATH. from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ {ames,rutgers}!iuvax!kinzler From richb Sat Mar 23 19:04:12 1991 Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17523; Sat, 23 Mar 91 19:04:12 EST Message-Id: <9103230904.AA17523@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1991 19:04:11 +1000 In-Reply-To: Steve Kinzler's message as of Mar 22, 11:11pm. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: Steve Kinzler Subject: Re: X-Face Cc: faces X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ } Rich, you can upload your database of face images to iuvax.cs.indiana.edu } in pub/faces/incoming and other folks can ftp or mailserv it from there. } You can upload the software and patches, too, if you'd like. } } Maybe we should keep these separate since some people may want only one } or the other. They can be joined together fairly easily if desired -- } or both used via $FACEPATH. Thanks Steve. I've just placed the following three compressed tar files in the pub/faces/incoming directory on iuvax.cs.indiana.edu: faces.tar.Z - version 1.4.13 of faces. I'll update this as new patches are generated. facedir.tar.Z - sample faces database. This is my collection of face images, and also includes Steves bitmaps (from the parent directory). ra.faces.tar.Z - sample faces database from Robert Adams. I've just spent the afternoon combining Roberts, Steve and mine, and converting all the 48x48x1 ikon files to face.xbm format. I've got a little more tidying up to do, but I'll put this new combined database on iuvax and titan on Monday, and I'll also post a status message of the changes that are currently in patch #14. More on Monday. From john@ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au Sat Mar 23 22:55:05 1991 Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17748; Sat, 23 Mar 91 22:55:05 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14290; Sat, 23 Mar 91 22:56:07 EST Received: from ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27668; Sat, 23 Mar 91 04:55:19 PST Received: by ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au id AA24378 (5.64+/IDA/DIT-0.9 for faces@Aus.Sun.COM); Sat, 23 Mar 91 22:54:39 +1000 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 91 22:51:03 +1000 From: John Mackin To: Robert Adams , The Faces List Subject: Where does the header go? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9103232251.5969.faces.babam@syd.dit.csiro.au> X-Face: 39seV7n\`#asqOFdx#oj/Uz*lseO_1n9n7rQS;~ve\e`&Z},nU1+>0X^>mg&M.^X$[ez>{F k5[Ah<7xBWF-@-ru?& @4K4-b`ydd^`(n%Z{ Robert wrote to the list including an X-Face: `header' in his signature. We need to spread the word that this practice doesn't work any more. You have to have the header in your headers. (Judging by Robert's headers, he may be using an SVR4 mailer, in which case he shouldn't have any trouble -- assuming he has (or is) a cooperative system administrator; I'm not 100% sure a user can manage that easily with that mailer.) John. From richb Mon Mar 25 11:03:44 1991 Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19769; Mon, 25 Mar 91 11:03:44 EST Message-Id: <9103250103.AA19769@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1991 11:03:43 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Status for faces patch #14. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ The changes I've made so far, for faces patch #14 are listed below. I'll send this patch out to the mailing list on the Tuesday after Easter. This will allow anybody else who has any diffs to send them to me for inclusion in the patch, and also possibly allows me to do some more work on faces over Easter (no promises there). I've integrated Robert Adams faces database with the collection I had, and have converted all the 48x48x1 ikons to face.xbm format. This collection is now on: titan.rice.edu as incoming/facedir.tar.Z and iuvax.cs.indiana.edu as pub/faces/incoming/facedir.tar.Z I've just received a load more face images from John Mackin (thanks John!), which I'll integrate into the database tomorrow (I must do some RealWork today). Patch #14 (changes so far): - From Philip Gladstone Better handling of X11 events -- fixes a number of bugs whereby things didn't get drawn. - From Philip Gladstone Fits text better into the icon even if proportional spaced font. - From Philip Gladstone Displays hostname rather than username if the icon represents the username rather than hostname. - From Philip Gladstone Fixes some bug (I can't recall what) attached to doing NIS lookups when a failing NIS lookup turns into a domain name lookup. - From Philip Gladstone Fixes a problem with utime system call not taking two longs! - From Philip Gladstone Fixes a problem if you change the width across to be not 10. - Added a Makefile.dist file to the faces distribution. This will replace the Makefile, and allows further changes to this file, without blowing the users changes out of the water. Patching the Makefile should be simpler now. The MANIFEST and FILES files have been updated. - From Chris Steinbroner From Philip Colmer Loading xfaces fails because XSetWMProtocols() does not exist on my system. It's an X11R4 routine. A new definition (X11R3) has been added to the Makefile.dist file. This needs to be uncommented if you are running the X11 (Xlib) version under MIT X11R3. - From John B. Melby If one creates a directory "edu" in the faces directory, it does not have any effect on a domain address in which EDU is capitalized. It seems to me that "faces" should not pay any attention to the case of a domain name (since case is only supposed to be significant in the user name). From John Mackin The comparison when looking up the domain in the faces directory appears to be case-sensitive. This is wrong per RFC822, domain-parts are case-insensitive. Both the directory name and the host name from the mail item should be downcased before comparison. From Peter Gray When comparing the domain of the mail with the machine.tab entries strcasecmp should be used since mail addresses are case invarient. From u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) As far as I remember, RFC822 states that 'domains' and 'mailboxes' ignore case. I frequently get mail with domain or subdomain names uppercase or capitalized. 'gethostname' on the DECstations of the university's radio astronomy institute returns upper case names (probably set up this way to get it compatible to DECnet conventions, they talk DECnet to the VAXes...). [Patch included]. - From Ken Wood Details of how to generate X-Face: headers from within GNU Emacs. Added to the README file. - Converted the mini faces database supplied with the faces distribution to face.xbm format. MANIFEST and FILES files updated. - Reversed the order of the patch entry descriptions in the CHANGES file, so the latest entry is at the top. - From Steve Kinzler Added a variety of scripts and filters to the faces distribution. These are: ikon2xbm, xbm2ikon bitmaps filters for Blit ikon and X11 bitmaps lpqall.sh, lpqall customized "faces -e" script for monitoring all printers mailq customized "faces -e" script for monitoring the system sendmail queue - The faces mailing list is now mentioned in the README file. From Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk Mon Mar 25 21:58:46 1991 Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23030; Mon, 25 Mar 91 21:58:46 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13059; Mon, 25 Mar 91 21:59:48 EST Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01697; Mon, 25 Mar 91 03:59:42 PST Received: from newcastle.ac.uk by sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk via JANET with NIFTP id <6480-0@sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Mar 1991 11:09:55 +0000 Received: from stobhill by uk.ac.newcastle; Mon, 25 Mar 91 11:09:19 GMT From: Lindsay "F." Marshall Message-Id: Subject: Facedir To: faces@Aus (Faces Mailing List) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 11:00:05 GMT X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTnX.%%nlD SrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SUq Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23068; Mon, 25 Mar 91 22:26:52 EST Received: from stard.Aus.Sun.COM by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14252; Mon, 25 Mar 91 22:27:56 EST Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23064; Mon, 25 Mar 91 22:26:47 EST Message-Id: <9103251226.AA23064@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1991 22:26:46 +1000 In-Reply-To: Lindsay "F." Marshall's message as of Mar 25, 11:00am. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: Lindsay "F." Marshall , faces@Aus (Faces Mailing List) Subject: Re: Facedir X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ } The Facedir stuff uis fine, except..... WOuld it be possible to have } all the sites named using their proper domain names - the short forms } have real potential for clashes. Good point. I'll try to do this when I merge in John Mackins' 200Kbytes + 500KBytes of compressed images in tar file format tomorrow. More when I've consolidated all this. From @littlei.hf.intel.com:adams@trim.intel.com Tue Mar 26 03:38:47 1991 Return-Path: <@littlei.hf.intel.com:adams@trim.intel.com> Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24527; Tue, 26 Mar 91 03:38:47 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00235; Tue, 26 Mar 91 03:39:46 EST Received: from hermes.intel.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07657; Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:39:38 PST Received: by hermes.intel.com (5.57/10.0i); Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:21:20 PST Received: by littlei.hf.intel.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.17.5 #17.17); Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:24 PST Message-Id: From: adams@trim.intel.com Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:24 PST To: faces@Aus Subject: Re: Shere does the header go? X-Face: %#`:});v)?H>f3y(PwZ-43Et2'zE!}r!V`$:/-\en+z::[Xh.U:/YrT."8} o>i92jd9>#\=U:yr='lGRfG-R}o0X8<_@@0[)MRb*p@8>At>c*X6tq@QfP.Z!wri:#1(I_yqf=r0&^ :sJI^B1k^i(RjES!Yg%g> Robert wrote to the list including an X-Face: `header' in his signature. > We need to spread the word that this practice doesn't work any more. > You have to have the header in your headers. (Judging by Robert's > headers, he may be using an SVR4 mailer, in which case he shouldn't > have any trouble -- assuming he has (or is) a cooperative system > administrator; I'm not 100% sure a user can manage that easily > with that mailer.) It is true that I used the X-Face: in my signature line. I believe that it is now in the header. (If it isn't, please flame me :-). For straight SVR4, the solution is to use mailx(1) and place in one's individual .mailrc the line: sendmail=/path/to/faces.binmail where "faces.binmail" is the "faces.sendmail" script with "/usr/bin/rmail" in place of the sendmail invocation. -- Robert Adams adams@littlei.intel.com ...!uunet!littlei!adams From richb Tue Mar 26 11:47:50 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02140; Tue, 26 Mar 91 11:47:50 EST Errors-To: faces-request@hosaka.central.sun.com Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02134; Tue, 26 Mar 91 11:47:49 EST Message-Id: <9103260147.AA02134@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1991 11:47:48 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Test message - please ignore. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@hosaka.central.sun.com There will hopefully be better error condition handling on the faces mailing list now. From richb Tue Mar 26 11:50:12 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02162; Tue, 26 Mar 91 11:50:12 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02156; Tue, 26 Mar 91 11:50:10 EST Message-Id: <9103260150.AA02156@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1991 11:50:10 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Test message - take 2. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Hopefully I've got my act together this time. Please ignore. From faces-request Wed Mar 27 15:17:08 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15307; Wed, 27 Mar 91 15:17:08 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15268; Wed, 27 Mar 91 15:16:55 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03227; Wed, 27 Mar 91 15:17:48 EST Received: from ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08811; Tue, 26 Mar 91 21:16:17 PST Received: by ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au id AA14240 (5.64+/IDA/DIT-0.9 for faces@Aus.Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Mar 91 15:16:14 +1000 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 14:56:22 +1000 From: John Mackin To: The Faces Mailing List Cc: ARMed and Dangerous: Boyd Roberts , Alan Skea ; Subject: Re: Status for faces patch #14. In-Reply-To: <9103250103.AA19769@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> Message-Id: <9103271456.13617.faces.babay@syd.dit.csiro.au> X-Face: 39seV7n\`#asqOFdx#oj/Uz*lseO_1n9n7rQS;~ve\e`&Z},nU1+>0X^>mg&M.^X$[ez>{F k5[Ah<7xBWF-@-ru?& @4K4-b`ydd^`(n%Z{ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM From: richb@Aus.Sun.COM (Rich Burridge) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1991 11:03:43 +1000 - From John B. Melby If one creates a directory "edu" in the faces directory, it does not have any effect on a domain address in which EDU is capitalized. It seems to me that "faces" should not pay any attention to the case of a domain name (since case is only supposed to be significant in the user name). From John Mackin The comparison when looking up the domain in the faces directory appears to be case-sensitive. This is wrong per RFC822, domain-parts are case-insensitive. Both the directory name and the host name from the mail item should be downcased before comparison. From Peter Gray When comparing the domain of the mail with the machine.tab entries strcasecmp should be used since mail addresses are case invarient. From u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) As far as I remember, RFC822 states that 'domains' and 'mailboxes' ignore case. I frequently get mail with domain or subdomain names uppercase or capitalized. 'gethostname' on the DECstations of the university's radio astronomy institute returns upper case names (probably set up this way to get it compatible to DECnet conventions, they talk DECnet to the VAXes...). [Patch included]. Now, call me a sentimental old fool, (sorry, no Alexei Sayle sketches. Start again.) Call me a guy who believes RFC822 matters, but I can't let this pass. Enough people are confused about this already; let's not propagate misinformation on this subject in the faces user community. Mr. Melby and I have it right above; Mr. Gray gets distressingly ambiguous, and Mr. Souvatzis is absolutely wrong. Please, everyone, refer to RFC822, section 3.4.7, `Case Independence'. I won't quote it at length here. The point, in simple language and without using token names from the 822 grammar, is that everything on the right side of the `@' matches in either case, _but everything on the left of the `@' matches in exact case_, with the exception of the reserved, special name "postmaster" which must match in either case. (I am oversimplifying here by ignoring source routing; if I may use token names, s do indeed match in either case, but es include s, which do _not_.) Please, people. RFC822 is all that stands between us and... and... (he shudders, and makes an odd Qabalistic sign in the air...) (dare I?) (YES!) X.400!!!!! Let's get it _right_. John. From faces-request Wed Mar 27 22:45:51 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18005; Wed, 27 Mar 91 22:45:51 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18000; Wed, 27 Mar 91 22:45:47 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23942; Wed, 27 Mar 91 22:46:50 EST Received: from unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16873; Wed, 27 Mar 91 04:45:52 PST Received: from mpifrrouter-x25a.WiN-IP.Uni-Dortmund.DE by unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (5.65+/UNIDO-2.0.3.j) via EUnet for aus.sun.com id AA27740; Wed, 27 Mar 91 12:47:12 GMT Received: from mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de by mpifrrouter.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01918; Wed, 27 Mar 91 13:45:55 +0100 Received: by mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (5.64/7.0) id AA06035; Wed, 27 Mar 91 13:45:28 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 13:45:28 +0100 From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Message-Id: <9103271245.AA06035@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> To: John Mackin Cc: The Faces Mailing List In-Reply-To: <9103271456.13617.faces.babay@syd.dit.csiro.au> Subject: Re: Status for faces patch #14. Reply-To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Return-Receipt-To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 18.51.0 X-Face: #rB\(f0m-qD2bY_7cpmZ003p,.l7>l`p}-q43!):$O(uULZbza}e&4,:u->2+c;hF`R[4bO ed'#>RHkOj9)lR>|Q~s5]r,HaF}DPNgWP:\C;{2b%\()YWy#HYY-5e."ZQgvy]d;h{jrC>!F>2V_IX Jv+W12\ivy] Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM > From: John Mackin > From u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) > As far as I remember, RFC822 states that 'domains' and 'mailboxes' > ignore case. I frequently get mail with domain or subdomain names > uppercase or capitalized. 'gethostname' on the DECstations of the > university's radio astronomy institute returns upper case names > (probably set up this way to get it compatible to DECnet > conventions, they talk DECnet to the VAXes...). [Patch included]. > > distressingly ambiguous, and Mr. Souvatzis is absolutely wrong. > Please, everyone, refer to RFC822, section 3.4.7, `Case Independence'. > I won't quote it at length here. The point, in simple language > and without using token names from the 822 grammar, is that > everything on the right side of the `@' matches in either case, > _but everything on the left of the `@' matches in exact case_, > with the exception of the reserved, special name "postmaster" > which must match in either case. (I am oversimplifying here > by ignoring source routing; if I may use token names, s > do indeed match in either case, but es include > s, which do _not_.) > > Please, people. RFC822 is all that stands between us and... > and... (he shudders, and makes an odd Qabalistic sign in the > air...) (dare I?) (YES!) X.400!!!!! Let's get it _right_. > > John. > Sorry, sorry. Mea maxima culpa. As I wrote in my comment to my patch, I only REMEMBERED RFC822, I didn't READ it. a) I wrote 'mailbox' instead of 'local-part'. b) 'local-part' would have been wrong, too, as John pointed out. (I just loaded rfc822 from the tape --- from the end of a very big tape --- and looked it up. I only want to insist on the 'domain'. In my patch, I patched for the 'domain' comparison (and made it case-insensitive); I didn't make the 'local-part' comparison case-sensitive (one line above it in the source). I sort of believed half of the program source and half of rfc822... Maybe Rich B. can do that? Should he? Btw, what should we do with X.400 addresses sneaking in into our 'real' net? Ignatios From richb Fri Mar 29 08:24:27 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05599; Fri, 29 Mar 91 08:24:28 EST Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05594; Fri, 29 Mar 91 08:24:27 EST Message-Id: <9103282224.AA05594@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1991 08:24:26 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Faces status - 29th March 1991. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ This message is really to test if the from_ line gets set to faces-request. I think I've finally been given the correct information on how to setup the list, and everything should now be hunky dory. Famous last words! In my spare time, I've been working on consolidating the faces databases. I've got all the databases into one, but there are still a few things that need to be done. I hope to get these done over the Easter break, in time to put a new compressed tar file on titan and iuvax. * There are several occurances of directories like "softway", "softway.sw", "softway.sw.oz". These should be consolidated even further into just one directory called "softway.sw.oz.au", and a set of unique user/face.xbm files placed under that. * I haven't included any symbolic links in the database. This information should really reside in the machine.tab and people.tab files. I'll try to generate such files from the list of links. This will need to be expanded on as other people supply me their equivalents. * I see that Steve started an etc. directory for miscellaneous faces. One of the databases that John passed on had several misc faces, which I'd like to stow away in etc. * Still got to convert the sun.icon files to face.xbm. There will no doubt be a few things wrong by the time I've done all of this. These can be sorted out on an individual basis next week. As for faces itself, the only thing I really want to do in the limited time I've got left before I go overseas is to abstract the X resource handling. This will have no real effect for the X and XView users, but it will allow SunView and NeWS users to write routines to handle the database files. From past eperience it also make it very simple to add in new X resources. More next week. From owner-faces Mon Apr 1 17:33:53 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08971; Mon, 1 Apr 91 17:33:55 EST Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08967; Mon, 1 Apr 91 17:33:53 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23461; Mon, 1 Apr 91 17:34:56 EST Received: from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27700; Fri, 29 Mar 91 07:29:20 PST Message-Id: <9103291529.AA27700@Sun.COM> Received: by iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Date: Fri, 29 Mar 91 10:29:17 -0500 From: Steve Kinzler To: faces@Aus Subject: New scripts and filters on iuvax I've put some new scripts and filters in the iuvax faces ftp archive. Now there's: filters.tar.Z - This includes the xbm2ikon and ikon2xbm scripts that were there before, but now they've been generalized to work for sizes other than 48x48. With the restrictions on the ikon format, I have doubts about how general they really are, but at least they work for 64x64 too instead of just 48x48. Two other scripts are there that I find useful while creating faces icons: xbmcut48 and xbmsize48. The first simply cuts out the top left 48x48 square of a given bitmap. The second will scale down a bitmap to 48x48 if it's larger than that, otherwise it fills out a bitmap with whitespace to fill 48x48. So, a common method I use to create a logo icon is to scan it in and display it on my screen. Then use xgrabsc to cut out a minimal bounding box around the logo. Then run xbmsize48 on the result and then touch it up with the bitmap editor. scripts.tar.Z - This includes the lpqall and mailq faces customization scripts that were there before (though recently patched). In addition, there's "addr", which can be used to show the faces for a file of mail addresses, "from", which I'll describe more below, and "rotary", a set of scripts to display the faces for users on a rotary of dialin ports. The "from" script is my experimental alternative to "faces -a" and is what I use to display my mailbox contents. Since it's a "-e" script, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the built-in mail monitor. Some ways it differs in behavior are that it displays the age of the mail message instead of the time of arrival, and it doesn't group up messages from the same sender into one icon (just my preferences). Most importantly, it allows the configuration of particular address <--> icon mappings. I use this for mailing lists, mostly. For example, I can configure things so that I get the faces mailing list icon if "faces-request" is in the From_ line. Or I can see a special icon if the mail was sent to me via a special mail alias, or whatever. See the "from.allrc-eg" file for examples -- it's in perl. I think the ability to customize like this will be important -- if only to keep up with things like "xbiff++", which I've previewed, that can do it via X resources (and can also show icons and even do sounds for mail messages). I'll probably be hacking the "from" script soon to do the "show hostname with user icon" thing in the latest faces patch. This all reminds me: It'd be nice if there were a way to specify the icon and information displayed when a "faces -e" window is in icon form. As it is now, it always gives the NOMAIL icon. from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ {ames,rutgers}!iuvax!kinzler From richb Tue Apr 2 13:54:43 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11960; Tue, 2 Apr 91 13:54:44 EST Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11955; Tue, 2 Apr 91 13:54:43 EST Message-Id: <9104020354.AA11955@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1991 13:54:42 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: New faces database available. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ I've just put the latest version of the faces database on: titan.rice.edu:incoming/facedir.tar.Z and iuvax.cs.indiana.edu:pub/faces/incoming/facedir.tar.Z The size is: -rw-r--r-- 1 ftp ftp 559139 Apr 1 22:39 facedir.tar.Z This is a compressed tar file of the face directories. Each image has been converted to face.xbm format. There is only one face image for each person. I will put together another separate directory structure of duplicates (multiple faces per person), plus odds and sods. I'm not sure when this will be. I'm fed up with looking at face icons at the moment. The facedir.tar.Z collection really need good machine.tab and people.tab files. I've done minimal work on this too. The next message will contain patch #14 for faces. For those people who'd sooner have a completely new version of faces already patched to level #14, then I've put the latest version of faces on: titan.rice.edu:incoming/faces.tar.Z and iuvax.cs.indiana.edu:pub/faces/incoming/faces.tar.Z The size is: -rw-r--r-- 1 ftp ftp 165563 Apr 1 22:36 faces.tar.Z Faces v1.4.14 (and patch #14) are also available from my automatic mail archive server. I expect there will need to be a few tweaks to get patch #14 to work on everybodies machine. These changes can go in patch #15, along with the new filters and scripts that Steve Kinzler has put together (thanks Steve). From richb Tue Apr 2 13:58:15 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11977; Tue, 2 Apr 91 13:58:17 EST Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11972; Tue, 2 Apr 91 13:58:15 EST Message-Id: <9104020358.AA11972@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1991 13:58:14 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Patch #14 for faces v1.4. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ This is official patch #14 for faces v1.4. CONTENTS: 1/ Changes made in this patch. 2/ How to install this patch. --------------- 1/ Changes made in this patch. - From Philip Gladstone Better handling of X11 events -- fixes a number of bugs whereby things didn't get drawn. - From Philip Gladstone Fits text better into the icon even if proportional spaced font. - From Philip Gladstone The option of displaying the hostname rather than the username if the icon represents the username rather than the hostname. This is controled by the X resource "faces.displayHostname", and defaults to false. - From Philip Gladstone Fixes some bug (I can't recall what) attached to doing NIS lookups when a failing NIS lookup turns into a domain name lookup. - From Philip Gladstone Fixes a problem with utime system call not taking two longs! - From Philip Gladstone Fixes a problem if you change the width across to be not 10. - Added a Makefile.dist file to the faces distribution. This will replace the Makefile, and allows further changes to this file, without blowing the users changes out of the water. Patching the Makefile should be simpler now. The MANIFEST and FILES files have been updated. - From Chris Steinbroner From Philip Colmer Loading xfaces fails because XSetWMProtocols() does not exist on my system. It's an X11R4 routine. A new definition (X11R3) has been added to the Makefile.dist file. This needs to be uncommented if you are running the X11 (Xlib) version under MIT X11R3. - From John B. Melby If one creates a directory "edu" in the faces directory, it does not have any effect on a domain address in which EDU is capitalized. It seems to me that "faces" should not pay any attention to the case of a domain name (since case is only supposed to be significant in the user name). From John Mackin The comparison when looking up the domain in the faces directory appears to be case-sensitive. This is wrong per RFC822, domain-parts are case-insensitive. Both the directory name and the host name from the mail item should be downcased before comparison. From Peter Gray When comparing the domain of the mail with the machine.tab entries strcasecmp should be used since mail addresses are case invarient. From u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) As far as I remember, RFC822 states that 'domains' and 'mailboxes' ignore case. I frequently get mail with domain or subdomain names uppercase or capitalized. 'gethostname' on the DECstations of the university's radio astronomy institute returns upper case names (probably set up this way to get it compatible to DECnet conventions, they talk DECnet to the VAXes...). [Patch included]. - From Ken Wood Details of how to generate X-Face: headers from within GNU Emacs. Added to the README file. - Converted the mini faces database supplied with the faces distribution to face.xbm format. MANIFEST and FILES files updated. - Reversed the order of the patch entry descriptions in the CHANGES file, so the latest entry is at the top. - From Steve Kinzler Added a variety of scripts and filters to the faces distribution. These are: ikon2xbm, xbm2ikon bitmaps filters for Blit ikon and X11 bitmaps lpqall.sh, lpqall customized "faces -e" script for monitoring all printers mailq customized "faces -e" script for monitoring the system sendmail queue - The faces mailing list is now mentioned in the README file. - The resource handling that was in x11.c, has been abstracted out into main.c. The XView version now also reads the X resources. - From Michael Urban Inclusion of support for the RAND mailer in mon.c, which insists on four ^A characters to mark the beginning and end of messages. These mods are included via an #ifdef RAND, with a new entry in the Makefile.dist file. - From Robert Adams Details of how to use the X-Face: lines with SVR4 have been added to the README file. ---------------- 2/ How to install this patch. This patch consists of a uuencoded compressed tar file. The tar file consists of a set of diffs which should be applied using Larry Wall's patch program, and various new files (or files that have changed so much, it's easier to send them out in their entirity, as opposed to a set of diffs). The tar file consists of: patch14.diffs Makefile.dist CHANGES facedir/misc./acsnet/face.xbm facedir/misc./adm/face.xbm facedir/misc./bin/face.xbm facedir/misc./daemon/face.xbm facedir/misc./mailer-daemon/face.xbm facedir/misc./net/face.xbm facedir/misc./root/face.xbm facedir/misc./sys/face.xbm facedir/misc./unknown/face.xbm facedir/misc./uucp/face.xbm facedir/sunaus/richb/face.xbm filters/ikon2xbm filters/lpqall.sh filters/lpqall filters/mailq filters/xbm2ikon This is a step by step guide on how to apply this patch: % cd faces_src # directory where your faces source files are. # strip off the front of this message, down to and including the CUT HERE line. # save file, calling it patch14.tar.Z.uu % uudecode patch14.tar.Z.uu % uncompress patch14.tar.Z % tar xvf patch14.tar % patch -p0 Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13250; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:07:33 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18872; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:08:24 EST Received: from unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12971; Tue, 2 Apr 91 07:08:02 PST Received: from mpifrrouter-x25a.WiN-IP.Uni-Dortmund.DE by unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (5.65+/UNIDO-2.0.3.j) via EUnet for aus.sun.com id AA03961; Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:04:13 GMT Received: from mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de by mpifrrouter.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04443; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:53:35 +0200 Received: by mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (5.64/7.0) id AA11943; Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:53:35 +0100 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:53:35 +0100 From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Message-Id: <9104021453.AA11943@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> To: faces@Aus Subject: 1.4.14 --- DECstation compiler (Ultrix 4.1) complains about reuse of raise X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 18.51.0 X-Face: #rB\(f0m-qD2bY_7cpmZ003p,.l7>l`p}-q43!):$O(uULZbza}e&4,:u->2+c;hF`R[4bO ed'#>RHkOj9)lR>|Q~s5]r,HaF}DPNgWP:\C;{2b%\()YWy#HYY-5e."ZQgvy]d;h{jrC>!F>2V_IX Jv+W12\ivy] The linker complained about redeclaration of raise in ./extern.h called from x11.c. extern int /*???*/ raise(); is declared in , extern int raise; is declared in ./extern.h. I changed all occurences of raise to raisewindow in all source files; now it works fine. Paper mail: Ignatios Souvatzis, Radioastronomisches Institut der Universitaet Bonn, Auf dem Huegel 71, D-5300 Bonn 1, FRG Internet: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de From owner-faces Wed Apr 3 01:07:51 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13265; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:07:54 EST Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13261; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:07:51 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18874; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:08:44 EST Received: from unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13040; Tue, 2 Apr 91 07:08:19 PST Received: from mpifrrouter-x25a.WiN-IP.Uni-Dortmund.DE by unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (5.65+/UNIDO-2.0.3.j) via EUnet for aus.sun.com id AA04634; Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:09:54 GMT Received: from mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de by mpifrrouter.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04449; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:57:19 +0200 Received: by mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (5.64/7.0) id AA12048; Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:57:18 +0100 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:57:18 +0100 From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Message-Id: <9104021457.AA12048@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> To: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Cc: faces@Aus Subject: 1.4.14 --- DECstation compiler (Ultrix 4.1) complains about reuse of raise Reply-To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Return-Receipt-To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 18.51.0 X-Face: #rB\(f0m-qD2bY_7cpmZ003p,.l7>l`p}-q43!):$O(uULZbza}e&4,:u->2+c;hF`R[4bO ed'#>RHkOj9)lR>|Q~s5]r,HaF}DPNgWP:\C;{2b%\()YWy#HYY-5e."ZQgvy]d;h{jrC>!F>2V_IX Jv+W12\ivy] Ignatios Souvatzis writes: > The linker complained about redeclaration of raise in ./extern.h 1,$s/linker/compiler/g :-( From owner-faces Wed Apr 3 01:18:40 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13285; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:18:42 EST Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13279; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:18:40 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19271; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:19:44 EST Received: from enet-gw.pa.dec.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14459; Tue, 2 Apr 91 07:19:33 PST Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA25068; Tue, 2 Apr 91 07:19:17 -0800 Received: by perle.prl.dec.com (5.61++prl/27-May-90); id AA13515; Tue, 2 Apr 91 17:19:11 +0200 (MET) Message-Id: <9104021519.AA13515@perle.prl.dec.com> From: Mark Shand Date: Tue, 2 Apr 91 17:19:00 +0200 X-Face: +XYQb|i%X`+C'^3[,rPMsjGG`d@_on,8,@_`!>4KZYC)Oz$(`k}7|cT@=&a!|,.(:$Kq Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13872; Wed, 3 Apr 91 08:05:56 EST Message-Id: <9104022205.AA13872@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1991 08:05:55 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Patch #14 problems. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM > From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) > The compiler complained about redeclaration of raise in ./extern.h > called from x11.c. extern int /*???*/ raise(); is declared in > , extern int raise; is declared in ./extern.h. I changed all > occurences of raise to raisewindow in all source files; now it works > fine. > From: Mark Shand > Compiling on a DECstation running ultrix 4.0, I had a problem with > a redeclartion of "raise" in x11.c. > > On this system: > /usr/include/signal.h > defines: > extern int raise(); > > Comments in the include file say this was added for 5 dec 89 for ANSI > compatibility. > > I renamed the offending variable "raize" and managed to compile without > errors. Thanks. I'll "officially" rename it to raisewindow() in patch #15, which I'll put out at the end of the week, with Steves' new filters and scripts. From faces-request Wed Apr 3 09:31:36 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13965; Wed, 3 Apr 91 09:31:36 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13960; Wed, 3 Apr 91 09:31:33 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02863; Wed, 3 Apr 91 09:32:36 EST Received: from Kodak.COM by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25458; Tue, 2 Apr 91 15:32:30 PST Received: from [129.126.249.3] by Kodak.COM (5.61+/2.1-Eastman Kodak) id AA19091; Tue, 2 Apr 91 18:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: davidp@kau1.kodak.com Received: from bugs.kau1.kodak.com by melblanc.kau1.kodak.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-kau1.kodak.com-0003) id AA08863; Wed, 3 Apr 91 09:28:49 AES Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 09:28:49 AES From: davidp@kau1.kodak.com (David Purdue) Message-Id: <9104022328.AA08863@melblanc.kau1.kodak.com> To: faces@Aus Subject: Faces no longer likes xview options. X-Face: R^Paeh54R\\sT[vpS{;6`Tn~-f))@*Q'>4!<{RKn]CX7*E3{Q!-|@2.\_^K^"m7auJ-B;:K \npY(hQ/hhf(uP/7_~\M.N6>Rh:PP`='E:s@?rOGQDxTC/_&wrO3?*58|3&>f}@pJd'%a[^1UCridn X:v"w/i,HSu]\m1q\gX1n Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM I am using the xview version of faces under Openwindows 2.0. Before applying patch 14, I had put faces on the screen in the place where I wanted it and did a "Save Workspace". Faces co-operatively wrote its possitioning arguments in xview style in my .openwin-init file. However, after recompiling with patch 14 applied, it ignores the position arguments in .openwin-init (so it goes to the top left of the screen, not where I left it), and does not write a line for itself when I do a Save Workspace. I have not investigated this at all (too much else to do - I thought I'd see if anyone else had the same problem first). DavidP From faces-request Wed Apr 3 10:37:56 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14269; Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:37:56 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14264; Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:37:54 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10846; Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:38:58 EST Received: from ads.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04733; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:38:46 PST Received: from parcplace.parcplace.com by ads.com (5.65+/1.34v1.3) id AA21613; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:38:23 -0800 Received: from connecticut by parcplace.com (4.0/SMI-3.2) id AA25482; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:38:27 PST Received: by connecticut (4.1/PARC-Place V1.0) id AA18030; Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:37:53 PST Date: Tue, 2 Apr 91 16:37:53 PST From: khaw@parcplace.com (Mike Khaw) Message-Id: <9104030037.AA18030@connecticut> In-Reply-To: David Purdue's letter of: 9:28am, Wed 3 Apr 1991 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.1 12/20/90) To: faces@Aus Subject: Re: Faces no longer likes xview options. Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Yes, I've seen the same problem. I had faces 1.4.13 running. I ran make xview for 1.4.14 and installed it. When I launched the new faces using all the XView options in my .openwin-init file, including specifying its icon position and that it start up iconic, it came up opened and when I iconified it, the icon didn't go where the command line argument specified it should. -- Mike Khaw ParcPlace Systems, Inc., 1550 Plymouth St., Mountain View, CA 94043 Domain=khaw@parcplace.com, UUCP=...!{uunet,sun,decwrl}!parcplace!khaw From richb Wed Apr 3 11:59:31 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14939; Wed, 3 Apr 91 11:59:31 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14933; Wed, 3 Apr 91 11:59:28 EST Message-Id: <9104030159.AA14933@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1991 11:59:27 +1000 In-Reply-To: Mike Khaw's message as of Apr 2, 4:37pm. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: khaw@parcplace.com (Mike Khaw), faces Subject: Re: Faces no longer likes xview options. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM } Yes, I've seen the same problem. I had faces 1.4.13 running. I ran make } xview for 1.4.14 and installed it. When I launched the new faces using } all the XView options in my .openwin-init file, including specifying } its icon position and that it start up iconic, it came up opened and } when I iconified it, the icon didn't go where the command line argument } specified it should. Found and fixed. It'll be in patch #15. Thanks David/Mike. From richb Wed Apr 3 15:11:41 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15917; Wed, 3 Apr 91 15:11:41 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15911; Wed, 3 Apr 91 15:11:40 EST Message-Id: <9104030511.AA15911@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1991 15:11:39 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: "Corrupted" faces in the database. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM I've just received some mail from somebody, who has a face in the database that in "corrupt". This is the wrong word to describe the problem. It's a simple endian problem when I did the conversion from 48x48x1 format to face.xbm format. I've fixed up this user, plus all the other users for that host. I suspect there will be others. I'll keep on the lookout for further problems. If you find any "corrupt" faces in the database, please let me know. I'll update the databases on titan and iuvax early next week. From faces-request Wed Apr 3 19:42:13 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09069; Wed, 3 Apr 91 19:42:13 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09050; Wed, 3 Apr 91 19:42:09 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15648; Wed, 3 Apr 91 19:43:12 EST Received: from unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28565; Wed, 3 Apr 91 01:42:59 PST Received: from mpifrrouter-x25a.WiN-IP.Uni-Dortmund.DE by unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (5.65+/UNIDO-2.0.3.j) via EUnet for aus.sun.com id AB04757; Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:44:10 +0100 Received: from mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de by mpifrrouter.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04842; Wed, 3 Apr 91 11:24:25 +0200 Received: by mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (5.64/7.0) id AA02855; Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:24:35 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 10:24:35 +0100 From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Message-Id: <9104030924.AA02855@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> To: richb@Aus (Rich Burridge) Cc: faces@Aus In-Reply-To: <9104022205.AA13872@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> Subject: Patch #14 problems. Reply-To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 18.51.0 X-Face: #rB\(f0m-qD2bY_7cpmZ003p,.l7>l`p}-q43!):$O(uULZbza}e&4,:u->2+c;hF`R[4bO ed'#>RHkOj9)lR>|Q~s5]r,HaF}DPNgWP:\C;{2b%\()YWy#HYY-5e."ZQgvy]d;h{jrC>!F>2V_IX Jv+W12\ivy] Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Rich Burridge writes: > > From: u502sou@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) > > The compiler complained about redeclaration of raise in ./extern.h > > From: Mark Shand > > Compiling on a DECstation running ultrix 4.0, I had a problem with > > a redeclartion of "raise" in x11.c. > > > > I renamed the offending variable "raize" and managed to compile without > > errors. > > Thanks. I'll "officially" rename it to raisewindow() in patch #15, > which I'll put out at the end of the week, with Steves' new filters > and scripts. Rich: please rename the VARIABLE in the faces PROGRAM, not the SYSTEM CALL. extern int raisewindow ; or extern int raize is ok. Ignatios From richb Wed Apr 3 19:45:45 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09980; Wed, 3 Apr 91 19:45:45 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09954; Wed, 3 Apr 91 19:45:40 EST Message-Id: <9104030945.AA09954@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1991 19:45:39 +1000 In-Reply-To: Ignatios Souvatzis's message as of Apr 3, 10:24am. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: u502sou@c1a.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Subject: Re: Patch #14 problems. Cc: faces X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM } Rich: please rename the VARIABLE in the faces PROGRAM, not the SYSTEM } CALL. extern int raisewindow ; or extern int raize is ok. Yeah! I'd sussed that after I went looking for it. Sorry for the confusion. I should have anticipated this problem, because I had the same problem with reve, an othello game I maintain. The source has been correctly adjusted to raisewindow. From richb Wed Apr 3 20:16:13 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10851; Wed, 3 Apr 91 20:16:13 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10842; Wed, 3 Apr 91 20:16:10 EST Message-Id: <9104031016.AA10842@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1991 20:16:09 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Faces database from hell(tm). X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM This could almost be posted to alt.hackers. After discovering that one of the faces in one of the host/user directories had it's left and right sides inverted, I began to wonder how many other faces I'd incorrectly converted from 48x48x1 format, to face.xbm format. For those of you familiar with Open Windows, you'll know there is a DeskSet utility called filemgr. With the V2 filemgr, there is a "view by content" option for looking at the contents of monochrome rasterfiles as shrunken 64x64 icons. I've extended V3 filemgr to support other formats; namely Sun icon format, XBM format and XPM format. The XBM "view by content" support came in very handy for checking which files were not displaying correctly. I sampled one face.xbm file for one user for each host. I made the assumption that if one users face.xbm file was incorrect, probably every face.xbm file for that host was incorrect. Not a perfect assumption but reasonable. I then created some shell scripts to convert the broken face.xbm files back to 48x48x1 files, then reconvert back to face.xbm, this time correcting the endian problem. There were 653 files converted incorrectly in all. I'd like to think the database is in a *lot* better shape now. I've re-put the database as a compressed tar file on titan:incoming/facedir.tar.Z and iuvax.cs.indiana.edu:pub/faces/incoming/facedir.tar.Z There will still be small teething problems. If you find any, please let me know and I'll adjust accordingly. Now I can rest easier. From richb Thu Apr 4 08:07:39 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11457; Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:07:39 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11451; Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:07:38 EST Message-Id: <9104032207.AA11451@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 08:07:37 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Faces audio support - comments please. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM I'm going to try to add audio support to faces for patch #15. Before I do, I'd like to throw my ideas at the list, and get a discussion going. I know that John has some ideas on this. My perspective is also biased towards Sun gear, so my ideas might not be as general as they should be. * There will be a default command for playing audio files. * There will be an additional two entries in the Makefile.dist file for specifying whether the program is capable of supporting audio, and an option audio play command (to override the default one): #AUDIO_SUPPORT = -DAUDIO_SUPPORT #AUDIO_CMD = -DAUDIO_CMD=\"/usr/local/bin/play\" * There will be a new command line option: -A [play command] -A on it's own enables audio support. It's disabled by default. -A [play command] allows the user to supply an alternative command to obey, to "play" the audio file. * There will be two new X resources: faces.audioSupport: true [default is false]. faces.audioCmd: /usr/local/bin/play * The XView property sheet will have another check box: [ ] Audio support * Whether an audio file should be played is determined by the presence of a face.au file in the host/user directory. I suspect that due to the size of most audio files, these will really be symbolic links to a large audio file directory somewhere. * Because faces currently checks so many different directory and name combinations, I suggest that it should only look for the face.au file when an equivalent face.xbm/48x48x1/sun.icon/face.ps file has already been found. In other words, there shouldn't be host/user directories with just a face.au file in them, because with this suggested lookup technique, they simply wouldn't be found. I suspect this point will be a hot topic for discussion. I'm flexible, but faces is really slow at the moment on large mail files. * When a face.au file has been found for a host/user (could be misc./unknown) then if audio support is enabled, the system() library call is used to play the sound. I considered forking a process, but it's possible that there could be a lot of host/user's that will have audio files associated with them, and you could end up with a couple of dozen sub-processes going. Combine that with the fact that only one process can have the Sun audio port open at any one time, I really wasn't left with too much choice. So there are my suggestions. This is surprisingly simple to implement, and hopefully would be a stiff competitor for those new xbiff++ programs that are starting to emerge on the net. Comments please. From faces-request Thu Apr 4 08:48:55 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11510; Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:48:55 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11503; Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:48:53 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12650; Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:49:58 EST Received: from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05715; Wed, 3 Apr 91 14:49:50 PST Message-Id: <9104032249.AA05715@Sun.COM> Received: by iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 17:49:47 -0500 From: Steve Kinzler To: richb@Aus, faces@Aus Subject: Re: Faces audio support - comments please. Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Written Wed Apr 3 17:29:15 1991 by richb@aus.sun.com,faces@aus.sun.com in mail: +---------- "Faces audio support - comments please." ---------- | but faces is really slow at the moment on large mail files. Since I'm using a lowly, soundless X terminal myself nowadays, I don't have anything to say about the audio stuff, nor have I delved into the source code for faces to see how it really does things, but I'll ask anyway: Is a bottleneck to faces' speed the search for the appropriate face file? If so, have these alternatives been considered? - a dbm database of face locations that can be searched faster than the directory structures; or even loaded and kept in core by the faces program for very fast searches; something would have to update the database every once in a while - a face location daemon that could be asked for the appropriate face for the given user/host We should be ready for good performance with databases of hundreds of hosts and thousands of users (much sooner than we probably realize) and eventually thousands of hosts and tens of thousands of users. Unless X-face:s become more important than the on-line databases ... from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ {ames,rutgers}!iuvax!kinzler From richb Thu Apr 4 09:47:29 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11631; Thu, 4 Apr 91 09:47:29 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11625; Thu, 4 Apr 91 09:47:25 EST Message-Id: <9104032347.AA11625@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 09:47:25 +1000 In-Reply-To: Steve Kinzler's message as of Apr 3, 5:49pm. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: Steve Kinzler , faces Subject: Re: Faces audio support - comments please. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM } Is a bottleneck to faces' speed the search for the appropriate face file? Yes. The Bell Labs V8/9 vismon program (correct me if I'm wrong John), used just 48x48x1 format. It used to request faces from a face server (like you suggest below). John Mackin and I have been discussing a few of these ideas off-line; perhaps it's time to put our ideas to the list. } If so, have these alternatives been considered? } - a dbm database of face locations that can be searched faster than } the directory structures; or even loaded and kept in core by the } faces program for very fast searches; something would have to update } the database every once in a while This is one of the ideas I really like. Here are some of my thoughts: There are problems with the current faces "database" structure. It uses a ridiculous number of inodes (I suspect this could be a real problem to some small sites). Unix directory lookup is not the fastest operation in the world. There are a lot of formats supported. To be honest, I'd like to get rid of sun.icon and 48x48x1 format, and just support face.xbm and (when I get a round tuit) face.xpm format. This would allow us to easy handle mono and limited color images. Greyscale and TrueColor images need to be thought about at a later date. The NeWS version would also support face.ps files, because animated icons are really cool! Reducing the number of file formats would speed it up slightly, but a better database approach is really needed. Dbm format would probably work. I seem to remember that DBM(3X) had some stupid upper limit of 1000 records or something. I'm sure that can be worked around; there are probably better database manipulation packages anyway. I believe Henry Spencer and Jeff Collier put one together for C news. Converting a large directory structure to .dbm format once a month seems acceptable to me. The database would use only one inode. That would be nice. There could easily be in-memory hash lookup tables, and various optimisation techniques applied if the dbm lookup was still too slow. } - a face location daemon that could be asked for the appropriate face } for the given user/host This is in the spirit of the Real True vismon(8). I like this idea as well. It doesn't limit the face server to being on the same machine, although if some form of RPC was used for the dbm lookup, then there isn't that problem there either. } We should be ready for good performance with databases of hundreds of } hosts and thousands of users (much sooner than we probably realize) and } eventually thousands of hosts and tens of thousands of users. Unless } X-face:s become more important than the on-line databases ... Agreed. If/when I/we get all the bugs out of the looking up of aliases in the people.tab and machine.tab files, then we'll need to improve their handling too. There are also bugs in the handling of multiple face directory structures. Whatever solution is chosen, it'll be a fair bit of work to write and implement. It's a project that could be done in isolation, then integrated with the latest faces when it's found to be an acceptable solution. If anybody wishes to volunteer to prototype some of these ideas, I'd love to hear from you. From faces-request Thu Apr 4 11:36:37 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12044; Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:36:37 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12039; Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:36:33 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29543; Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:37:36 EST Received: from ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28942; Wed, 3 Apr 91 17:37:02 PST Received: by ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au id AA25975 (5.64+/IDA/DIT-0.9 for faces@Aus.Sun.COM); Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:35:27 +1000 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:17:16 +1000 From: John Mackin To: The Faces List Subject: Re: Faces audio support - comments please. References: <9104032207.AA11451@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> Message-Id: <9104041017.16182.faces.babeg@syd.dit.csiro.au> X-Face: 39seV7n\`#asqOFdx#oj/Uz*lseO_1n9n7rQS;~ve\e`&Z},nU1+>0X^>mg&M.^X$[ez>{F k5[Ah<7xBWF-@-ru?& @4K4-b`ydd^`(n%Z{ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Argh! Rich, I'll have to exclude your middle if you keep this up :-). How can I catch up with the huge backlog of stuff I need to do for you _and_ take part in current-time discussions on the list at the same time? (That's rhetorical and I am choosing the second.) From: richb@Aus.Sun.COM (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 08:07:37 +1000 I'm going to try to add audio support to faces for patch #15. Before I do, I'd like to throw my ideas at the list, and get a discussion going. I know that John has some ideas on this. My perspective is also biased towards Sun gear, so my ideas might not be as general as they should be. I do indeed have ideas. I won't quote Rich's mail at length here; see the referenced message. I do want to stress that I too am most interested in hearing from people with non-Sun audio support, since I, like Rich, have Sun hardware. (There does seem to be a pretty reasonable de-facto standard for telephone-quality audio data, though, namely 8 bits inverted signed x 8000 per second; happily, you can cat that at /dev/audio on a Sparc and it works. Other systems don't support the same sound file header format that the Sparc software does (and that some file(1) commands recognise -- file begins with ".snd"), so we probably shouldn't tie ourselves to that (not that anything Rich suggested meant that we were doing so).) Now about Rich's suggested implementation. It's much more ambitious that what I had in mind. I was just going to add a command which would be system()'ed instead of ringing the bell, if it was present. So, there would just be one "There is new mail" sound, not a sound per face. (This could also be accomplished at the protocol level, by using the Xsun contributed audio-bell mods, but that means you get the same sound when any application rings the bell. That's all very well, but my goal here was a distinguished sound just for mail arrival. And of course, that assumes not only that you are using X, but that you can hack your server; neither assumption is true for the whole faces user community, by a wide margin.) Unfortunately, Rich's suggested implementation does not allow what I want, unless you are prepared to go to the overhead of a face.au symlink in _every_ leaf directory of the tree; in most instances, to the default sound, otherwise to the particular sound. This is quite ridiculous, and is really the only quarrel I have with the suggestion's design. There should be an optional resource "audioDefaultFile" or similar, and parallel .facesrc options, command line options, etc. If the file is specified and no .au file is found in the leaf where the face is, then that file is played the same way a .au file in the leaf would have been. I also have some general comments about X resources vs property sheets vs command line arguments vs .facesrc etc ad inf, but I will hold them for a later message in the interests of getting this one out. I do have one problem with the detail, as opposed to the concept, of Rich's suggestion: * There will be a new command line option: -A [play command] -A on it's own enables audio support. It's disabled by default. -A [play command] allows the user to supply an alternative command to obey, to "play" the audio file. This is in contravention of the SVID. Those of you that know me either know what's coming or are shocked, since I would never advocate that anyone follow the SVID; but in this specific instance, its English is _so_ beautiful that it can't be resisted, to wit: Option arguments cannot be optional. (SVID aside, it's bad user interface design anyway.) What that lovely sentence means is that if you have an option, say -A, then it either always takes a following argument, or it never takes one. If you're using getopt or similar to parse your arguments, you must do it like this anyway. It also means that the user doesn't have to worry about whether there should be whitespace between the option and the argument. So, concretely, I suggest: -A enables audio support, disabled by default; -P turns on -A and sets the play command to the one given. I don't care what the names really are, all I care about is that `option arguments cannot be optional'. More later, John. From richb Thu Apr 4 12:03:48 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12125; Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:03:48 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12119; Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:03:45 EST Message-Id: <9104040203.AA12119@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 12:03:44 +1000 In-Reply-To: John Mackin's message as of Apr 4, 10:17am. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: John Mackin , The Faces List Subject: Re: Faces audio support - comments please. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM } From: John Mackin } Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:17:16 +1000 } How can I catch up with the huge backlog of stuff I need to do for you } _and_ take part in current-time discussions on the list at the same time? } (That's rhetorical and I am choosing the second.) Get a boss on the other side of the planet like me. It really works. :-) } Now about Rich's suggested implementation. It's much more ambitious } that what I had in mind. I was just going to add a command which would } be system()'ed instead of ringing the bell, if it was present. So, there } would just be one "There is new mail" sound, not a sound per face. It would be fairly simple to add this support in as well, but separate from the individual host/user audio support. How about this? There would be an X resource something like: faces.newmailAudioFile: /usr/local/sounds/cowbell.au If this resource is present, and audio is enabled, then the new mail sound would be played first, followed by possibly other user specific audio files. Also, the ability to specify the new mail audio file via the command line option: -B /usr/local/sounds/cuckoo.au } I also have some general comments about X resources vs property sheets vs } command line arguments vs .facesrc etc ad inf, but I will hold them for } a later message in the interests of getting this one out. I'll quickly add one comment here. I'd like the ~/.facerc file to be in Xdefaults format. I'd have to add in the ability for the SunView and NeWS versions to parse this file, but in the case of the X and XView versions, this file would simply be merged with the other resources from various X places in load_resources(). } Option arguments cannot be optional. I've no problems with this. In fact, it makes my life simpler. I'll use -A for enabling audio, and -C for the alternative audio command (-P is taken). At a later date, I'd really like to convert the arguments to words like: % faces -audio -printer minnow etc... I realise Unix is used to terse commands and arguments, but it's easier to understand longer words (especially if all you've got is a usage message). This is probably a religious issue, so I better be careful here. :-) For now I'll add three things to the TODO file: * Convert ~/.facerc to Xdefaults format. Add in support for the SunView and NeWS versions to be able to read this file. * Possibly convert command line arguments to word equivalents. * Need to add a Faces.ad application resources file to the faces distribution. Thanks for the comments John. From richb Thu Apr 4 17:31:07 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13624; Thu, 4 Apr 91 17:31:07 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13617; Thu, 4 Apr 91 17:31:04 EST Message-Id: <9104040731.AA13617@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 17:31:03 +1000 In-Reply-To: Hugues.Leroy@irisa.fr's message as of Apr 4, 9:09am. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: Hugues.Leroy@irisa.fr, faces Subject: Re: Faces audio support - comments please. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Hugues, I apologise in advance for mailing your suggestion to the mailing list without your permission. I hope you don't find this inappropriate. } From Hugues.Leroy@irisa.fr } Date: Thu, 04 Apr 91 09:09:55 +0200 } For audio support, we have xbiff++ with ressources such as: } } xbiff*soundBindings:\ } From:.*jbanatre|/usr/site/share/sounds/oh_my_god.au,\ } From:.*leroy|/usr/site/share/sounds/ahoohoo,\ } From:.*Mailer-Daemon|/usr/site/share/sounds/sorrydave,\ } Subject:.*Restau.*|/usr/site/share/sounds/woo_woo_woo_hoo.au } xbiff*volume:50 } } so instead of creating new files host/user/face.au, what about the xbiff way? My own opinions here: Face.au audio files take much less processing. With the resource type info, there is yet another file (list) to search through for every mail message. If this list is long, then there are a lot of checks needed to determine if you should be playing a sound. With the face.au file, one stat() is all you need. Alternatively, the resource approach allows individual customisation per user which is really nice, and something the face.au approach doesn't. What do other people think? I like this idea. I'll grab a copy of xbiff++ to see if the copyright notices make the code reusable, and to see if they have any fast techniques for processing the list to see if there is a sound file for this user/host. From richb Thu Apr 4 18:15:13 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13729; Thu, 4 Apr 91 18:15:13 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13723; Thu, 4 Apr 91 18:15:12 EST Message-Id: <9104040815.AA13723@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 18:15:11 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Faces audio support ala xbiff++ X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM xbiff++ does this nicely. It parses the soundBindings X resource and generates a set of bindings using the name and sound and a binding pattern, and chains this list together. It uses Henry Spencers regexp package to handle regular expressions. This should be fairly fast. Both xbiff++ code and the regexp package code would appear to be reusable as long as the copyright messages are preserved, and the appropriate credits added to the documentation. I would simply need to cut and paste appropriately. This seems to be the way to go for sound support. I don't know if there is a size limit for a single X resource. That might be a slight problem. The SunView and NeWS versions would initially miss out, until routines were written to convert the ~/.facerc file to X defaults format, and to parse said file. I'd like other people views, but unless there are any strong objections, I'll aim to start work on this over this weekend. From faces-request Thu Apr 4 18:23:40 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13777; Thu, 4 Apr 91 18:23:40 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13770; Thu, 4 Apr 91 18:23:38 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27512; Thu, 4 Apr 91 18:24:43 EST Received: from enet-gw.pa.dec.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09763; Thu, 4 Apr 91 00:24:31 PST Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA22273; Thu, 4 Apr 91 00:24:00 -0800 Received: by perle.prl.dec.com (5.61++prl/27-May-90); id AA21871; Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:23:42 +0200 (MET) Message-Id: <9104040823.AA21871@perle.prl.dec.com> From: Mark Shand Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:23:30 +0200 X-Face: +XYQb|i%X`+C'^3[,rPMsjGG`d@_on,8,@_`!>4KZYC)Oz$(`k}7|cT@=&a!|,.(:$Kq Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM > } eventually thousands of hosts and tens of thousands of users. Unless > } X-face:s become more important than the on-line databases ... I'm really against the proliferation of face databases because it just doesn't scale. In my opinion we should be promoting X-Face: header lines. I don't want to have the face of everyone in the known universe stored at my site, and I'm at a big site, we don't really care about disk, what about the poor sucker who has a handful of locally administered machines who doesn't want to devote (100000 usenet users * 1 Kbyte) = 100 Meg to a face database. Eons ago I had an /etc/hosts file, it grew and grew, it became unworkable so now I have nameservers. Every so often I have difficult connecting from machine A in France to machine B in Australia because machine C in Palo Alto is down, but basically it works. A lot of work went into the nameserver protocol, we could conceivably embark on a similar path with faces--I see hints of it in these faceserver suggestions. But why bother? X-Face: is an elegant solution. Stop the rot, include an X-Face: today! Mark Shand From faces-request Thu Apr 4 19:07:02 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13936; Thu, 4 Apr 91 19:07:02 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13931; Thu, 4 Apr 91 19:07:00 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27691; Thu, 4 Apr 91 19:08:05 EST Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13543; Thu, 4 Apr 91 01:07:59 PST Received: from newcastle.ac.uk by sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk via JANET with NIFTP id <5599-0@sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>; Thu, 4 Apr 1991 09:59:35 +0100 Received: from stobhill by uk.ac.newcastle; Thu, 4 Apr 91 09:59:15 +0100 From: Lindsay "F." Marshall Message-Id: Subject: Audio support, vismon, databases To: faces@Aus (Faces Mailing List) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 9:49:57 BST X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTnX.%%nlD SrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SUq Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14235; Fri, 5 Apr 91 01:57:27 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18881; Fri, 5 Apr 91 01:58:14 EST Received: from ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20259; Thu, 4 Apr 91 07:57:38 PST Received: by ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au id AA24332 (5.64+/IDA/DIT-0.9 for faces@Aus.Sun.COM); Fri, 5 Apr 91 01:56:03 +1000 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 01:48:06 +1000 From: John Mackin To: The Faces List (but especially Rich) Subject: Re: Faces audio support ala xbiff++ In-Reply-To: <9104040815.AA13723@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> Message-Id: <9104050148.23592.faces.baben@syd.dit.csiro.au> X-Face: 39seV7n\`#asqOFdx#oj/Uz*lseO_1n9n7rQS;~ve\e`&Z},nU1+>0X^>mg&M.^X$[ez>{F k5[Ah<7xBWF-@-ru?& @4K4-b`ydd^`(n%Z{ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Rich writes: This seems to be the way to go for sound support. I don't know if there is a size limit for a single X resource. That might be a slight problem. [...] I'd like other people views, but unless there are any strong objections, I'll aim to start work on this over this weekend. I have huge objections. This does _not_ belong in the resources. Please do not ever lose sight of the fact that the resources are in _server_ memory (as the RESOURCE_MANAGER property of the root window) and server memory is, by the hard facts of life, a scarce commodity. I will discuss this whole issue at greater length when I write about where we should be getting argyments from in general. That'll be on the weekend probably; at least it will be when I'm not intoxicated. (I only dialed up to _read_ mail but felt this demanded a reply.) John. From faces-request Fri Apr 5 05:31:24 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14434; Fri, 5 Apr 91 05:31:24 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: <@littlei.hf.intel.com:adams@trim.intel.com> Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14429; Fri, 5 Apr 91 05:31:22 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03505; Fri, 5 Apr 91 05:32:26 EST Received: from hermes.intel.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21528; Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:32:21 PST Received: by hermes.intel.com (5.57/10.0i); Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:51:28 PST Received: by littlei.hf.intel.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.17.5 #17.17); Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:54 PST Message-Id: From: adams@trim.intel.com Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 10:53 PST To: faces@Aus Subject: Re: Faces audio support ala xbiff++ X-Face: %#`:});v)?H>f3y(PwZ-43Et2'zE!}r!V`$:/-\en+z::[Xh.U:/YrT."8} o>i92jd9>#\=U:yr='lGRfG-R}o0X8<_@@0[)MRb*p@8>At>c*X6tq@QfP.Z!wri:#1(I_yqf=r0&^ :sJI^B1k^i(RjES!Yg%g> Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14522; Fri, 5 Apr 91 07:16:09 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14384; Fri, 5 Apr 91 07:17:14 EST Received: from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06894; Thu, 4 Apr 91 13:17:09 PST Message-Id: <9104042117.AA06894@Sun.COM> Received: by iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 16:17:07 -0500 From: Steve Kinzler To: faces@Aus Subject: Usenix FaceSaver faces database available Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM In a fit of enthusiasm, I rftp'ed the entire Usenix FaceSaver database from uunet, hacked Chris Maltby's fs2ikon script into a simpler, more robust fs2xbm, and ran it over the database. So, now we have about 3300 new faces from about 1600 sites. I'm not sure this is a good thing. I haven't tried to use this database with faces in the regular way yet, but I bet it'll show us how slow faces can really be. This will probably be a good thing for a face server daemon to access when necessary, if such a critter ever comes to exist. Anyway, I extended the Showall script from my bitmaps collection into a "facesall" program that can show arbitrarily large databases using multiple windows if necessary. I used this to see all the faces in the FaceSaver collection. It'll replace the Showall script and can be retrieved from iuvax:pub/faces/facesall. The FaceSaver database will soon be in iuvax:pub/faces/facesaver.tar.Z -- all 8 megs of it (I'd estimate, 14 megs uncompressed -- it's not done compressing yet). The fs2xbm script is in iuvax:pub/faces/filters.tar.Z. from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ {ames,rutgers}!iuvax!kinzler PS: To any and all Australian members of this list, I recently found out that there's a fair chance I'll have the opportunity to visit your fair country this winter ... er ... summer ... er ... December! Perth, to be specific. From richb Fri Apr 5 08:38:41 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14761; Fri, 5 Apr 91 08:38:41 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14755; Fri, 5 Apr 91 08:38:35 EST Message-Id: <9104042238.AA14755@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1991 08:38:35 +1000 In-Reply-To: adams@trim.intel.com's message as of Apr 4, 10:53am. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: adams@trim.intel.com Subject: Re: Faces audio support ala xbiff++ Cc: john@ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au, faces X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Okay, John and Robert have persuaded me not to do it as an X resource. } In ten words or less: I'd recommend that the data and the bindings } be associated with the database and the workstation/preference } specific playing programs be specified resources, parameters, ... As I've mentioned before, this is really simple to implement. It also means that the SunView and NeWS users can use this audio ability too. If I ever get my act together and fixup the bugs associated with multiple face database lookup, then individual users can have their audio information in their own smaller personised faces database. From faces-request Fri Apr 5 18:56:49 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16355; Fri, 5 Apr 91 18:56:49 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16350; Fri, 5 Apr 91 18:56:47 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04662; Fri, 5 Apr 91 18:57:52 EST Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28064; Fri, 5 Apr 91 00:57:46 PST Received: from newcastle.ac.uk by sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk via JANET with NIFTP id <5840-0@sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>; Fri, 5 Apr 1991 09:55:22 +0100 Received: from stobhill by uk.ac.newcastle; Fri, 5 Apr 91 09:55:41 +0100 From: Lindsay "F." Marshall Message-Id: Subject: Faces not appearing To: faces@Aus (Faces Mailing List) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 9:46:22 BST X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTnX.%%nlD SrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SUq Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17073; Sat, 6 Apr 91 07:16:38 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14910; Sat, 6 Apr 91 07:17:43 EST Received: from iuvax.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22696; Fri, 5 Apr 91 13:17:38 PST Message-Id: <9104052117.AA22696@Sun.COM> Received: by iuvax.cs.indiana.edu Date: Fri, 5 Apr 91 16:17:35 -0500 From: Steve Kinzler To: faces@Aus Subject: More faces goodies Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM 1) I've fixed the remaining reversed bitmaps in iuvax:pub/faces/incoming/facedir.tar.Z and extracted the truly corrupt ones. 2) I wrote a new faces front-end script that can display faces for an arbitrary number of mail addresses on stdin or in files -- facesaddr in the scripts.tar.Z file. For example, to see the faces for all the stuff in your mbox file, try: % grep '^From: ' ~/mbox | facesaddr 3) The facesall script has been moved into the scripts.tar.Z file, too. The facesaver.tar.Z database compressed much more than I estimated (only 2.2 Megs) and may be more useful than I expected. from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ {ames,rutgers}!iuvax!kinzler From richb Mon Apr 8 11:17:34 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21040; Mon, 8 Apr 91 11:17:34 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21034; Mon, 8 Apr 91 11:17:32 EST Message-Id: <9104080117.AA21034@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1991 11:17:31 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.0 10/31/90) To: faces Subject: Faces status - 8th April 1991. X-Face: Y}N{(a7(Nu]wrKSz:kGC&t@v8%uR^Y{y#;Fi*Z]A,qHkF6e(GVt"p^=(_Wyd$ TS*Z_A\F}5?'8l(le<7AU78a,@J-^5-O>QO"e%Lof2(PtE5w-FnjKk>7sk9T} oWMM:)c+EI5G~>+2[oW}?tx)WOH%`A|ivL!71qx'avX*;Nd{BOO2);d](wKt8 TSbZg'OeegxvS7,YNY,^ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM The list of changes (so far) for patch #15 are included below. I hope to find some more time this week to do a few more of the items in the TODO file. It has been suggested to me that the faces.sendmail script should be adjusted to include the preceding "X-Face:" itself, so the contents of the users ~/.face file can be the same whether s/he uses Elm or any other mailer. This seems like a good idea. Please let me know if you can see any problems with this (apart from having to force most people to hand edit their ~/.face one more time). I've also been slowly adjusting the: char variable[MAXLINE] declarations to: char *variable and using a new routine called read_str() to malloc up and set the string accordingly. My intention is to try to reduce the size of the program (and fixup some sloppy/lazy code). ------- v1.4 - patchlevel 15 - 8th April 1991. - From David Purdue From Mike Khaw The window and icon positioning broke with patch #14 for the XView version. - From Ignatios Souvatzis From Mark Shand raise() is already declared on some systems. All occurances of raise() in faces have been replaced with raisewindow(). - From Lindsay F. Marshall My faces window beeps and raises itself for no apparent reason. Certainly no new mail has arrived. [show_display() was being called in do_mail() even though there wasn't any new mail - Rich]. - Added in audio capabilities see the README and manual pages for more details. - Added Saber entry to Makefile.dist and ran the X11 (Xlib) version of faces through Saber. - From John Mackin The "-b icon_file" option doesn't work. It still comes up with the default background. - From Philip Gladstone In the top level Makefile, you allow specification of FMONTYPE. The code in main.c checks for FBMONTYPE. Also the definition of FMONTYPE=0 and =1 are reversed. - From Steve Kinzler Added all the new filters and scripts from Steve to the faces distribution. Created a new scripts directory, and moved mailq, lpqall and lpqall.sh across to it. See the README.kinzler files in the scripts and filters sub-directories for more details. From faces-request Mon Apr 8 12:32:56 1991 Received: by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21472; Mon, 8 Apr 91 12:32:56 EST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Aus.Sun.COM (sunaus) by stard.Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21467; Mon, 8 Apr 91 12:32:52 EST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr.EBay.Sun.COM) by Aus.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29241; Mon, 8 Apr 91 12:33:55 EST Received: from ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05084; Sun, 7 Apr 91 19:31:02 PDT Received: by ditsydh.syd.dit.csiro.au id AA10819 (5.64+/IDA/DIT-0.9 for faces@Aus.Sun.COM); Mon, 8 Apr 91 12:28:45 +1000 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 14:28:46 +1000 From: John Mackin To: The Faces List Subject: faces performance issues & database lookup References: <9104032249.AA05715@Sun.COM> <9104032347.AA11625@stard.Aus.Sun.COM> Message-Id: <9104041428.9952.faces.babel@syd.dit.csiro.au> X-Face: 39seV7n\`#asqOFdx#oj/Uz*lseO_1n9n7rQS;~ve\e`&Z},nU1+>0X^>mg&M.^X$[ez>{F k5[Ah<7xBWF-@-ru?& @4K4-b`ydd^`(n%Z{ Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Indented material is by Rich, and he's quoting Steve. } Is a bottleneck to faces' speed the search for the appropriate } face file? Yes. The Bell Labs V8/9 vismon program (correct me if I'm wrong John), used just 48x48x1 format. It used to request faces from a face server (like you suggest below). You're not wrong (Narelle). Presotto's face server was happy to provide faces in quite a few different formats, but the only format that vismon itself used was 48x48x1. I don't have a copy handy, but I believe Pike and Presotto's paper ``Face the Nation'' described the face server in some detail, for those who may be interested. Perhaps Rich can post the reference; I have a feeling it was a USENIX paper. Anyway, this is _the absolute biggie_ performance problem in faces. I made some fast measurements many versions ago that confirmed this, which is intuitively clear anyway; all those stats, right, and each stat means another namei, and we all know what a bad move namei is. Worse still, and this is a true hasslebad for people who don't use -a and do let mail build up in their mailbox (I don't do the former, and I don't do the latter any more -- but I used to... and of course, there are those times when you have a week off, right, and come back to 212 messages...), is the fact that faces does the icon lookup for _every message_, not just for the ones it is going to display icons for. A huge performance win for people in the above situation can be had in one of two ways: (1) read and scan the mail file backwards, or (2) scan all the messages, but just cache the info for locating the face for the last -c number of messages, and defer looking up icons until you hit EOF. (1) is harder to program neatly and efficiently, but much cuter; it does, of course, defeat the kernel's read-ahead, but what the hell. (For those of you who have never tried starting faces on a substantial mailbox, try it sometime. Have a pillow and blankets handy.) These, however, are just kludges. They may be good kludges; they may be kludges that we should implement -- but they remain kludges nonetheless. They won't help people who use -a, since in that case every icon needs to be looked up anyway. I _by no means_ intend to suggest that we shouldn't be using a totally different access method. After all, ``Don't diddle code to make it faster -- find a better algorithm.'' [K&Plauger.] Another kludge (again, I'm _not_ saying we should be kludging) which could cut down the namei overhead substantially is to chdir() to the top of each facepath element and do the searching of that part of the tree with relative pathnames from there, rather than using absolute pathnames all the way from the root each time. chdir()'ing is often very bad practice, but in an application that can't possibly become interactive we don't have to be concerned. John Mackin and I have been discussing a few of these ideas off-line; perhaps it's time to put our ideas to the list. Hey! Here it comes man! } If so, have these alternatives been considered? } - a dbm database of face locations that can be searched faster than } the directory structures; or even loaded and kept in core by the } faces program for very fast searches; something would have to update } the database every once in a while This is one of the ideas I really like. Here are some of my thoughts: [...] Dbm format would probably work. I seem to remember that DBM(3X) had some stupid upper limit of 1000 records or something. I'm sure that can be worked around; there are probably better database manipulation packages anyway. I believe Henry Spencer and Jeff Collier put one together for C news. I don't mind this idea, but... dbm will NOT work, and ndbm will NOT work, and we have to remember that not all UNIX variants have dbm at all. Both dbm and ndbm share Rich's ``stupid upper limit'', and it's very bad. The relevant manual entry quote is this: The sum of the sizes of a key/content pair must not exceed the internal block size (currently 1024 bytes). Moreover all key/content pairs that hash together must fit on a sin- gle block. store() will return an error in the event that a disk block fills with inseparable data. The second sentence kills n/dbm for all serious applications. I've looked at this and it doesn't work. It can't be worked around. What would be nice was if there was a public domain reimplementation of n/dbm that didn't have this problem. I don't know if this exists or not; I haven't looked through the archives. Does anyone on the list know? I haven't looked at what C news uses; perhaps someone who knows can tell us about it. Whatever we use, it would need to be adopted as part of the faces distribution. There's nothing I hate worse than grabbing something off the net and finding that it isn't self-contained, and I am sure others share this feeling. Converting a large directory structure to .dbm format once a month seems acceptable to me. The database would use only one inode. That would be nice. Well, two :-). } - a face location daemon that could be asked for the appropriate face } for the given user/host This is in the spirit of the Real True vismon(8). I like this idea as well. (vismon(9), you trivia fans.) Damn right! There's a hassle, though. The face server was implemented using a mounted process and the file system switch, not things we can rely on having on our common-or-garden UNIX boxes. Sure, we can make some bizarre RPC format for serving faces (or some such -- personally I don't like RPC much, since you ne