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To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: xfaces - how to control duration of msg display
Organization: Advanced Investment Technology
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From: Tomislav Goles <tom@ait-tech.com>
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Hi,
I'm new to faces/xfaces and have a question about how to 
control how long the image/message is displayed before it
is replaced with nomail xpm. I'd like xfaces to keep (certain
number) of images up as long as my newsreader (gnus) does not
pull them out of the /usr/mail file. Right now xfaces shows
me which messages arrived for a brief period of time and then
regardless of whether I have touched them or not it changes
into nomail.
Is this possible to do and if so how?
Thanks for any info.

--
Tomislav


From faces-request  Wed Jan 21 08:11:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:23:11 GMT
From: Steve_Kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk
Message-Id: <199801210823.IAA15998@vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk>
X-Planation: X-Faces images can be viewed with the XFaces program
To: faces@cs.indiana.edu, tom@ait-tech.com
Subject: Re: xfaces - how to control duration of msg display
X-Face: Iqsa(US9p?)Y^W+6Ff[Z]<t?\A!eaL'DG{20*#{C1;'Ct&}L}B^/1(aYI@hP)4!<}7D=2gm
	8!$T`8QNfK<te\20%A\`wm*wa2"^Up*Qs"X}KeV*3XeB2te&sKp*t`N;^BDh[6=K{ZBE=O>rM"uFE)
	lFDjag1e]\/#2
Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu

> Right now xfaces shows
> me which messages arrived for a brief period of time and then
> regardless of whether I have touched them or not it changes
> into nomail.

This is probably gnus adding the Status: RO header to the message,
after determining that you have mail, and what it is. Or perhaps,
you're using a POP/IMAP server, and the daemon is doing that. Either
way, xfaces decides that such messages aren't "interesting", because
they've already been "read", and doesn't display them.

If you want to change this behaviour, you should be able to do it
by fiddling with the XFaces.ignoreMessageBindings resource.

Thanks for asking this question - this behaviour bugged me too, but
I haven't bothered looking for an answer before now. :-)

steve


From faces-request  Wed Jan 21 09:40:25 1998
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To: Steve_Kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk
Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: xfaces - how to control duration of msg display
References: <199801210823.IAA15998@vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk>
Organization: Advanced Investment Technology
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From: Tomislav Goles <tom@ait-tech.com>
Date: 21 Jan 1998 09:12:08 -0500
In-Reply-To: Steve_Kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:23:11 GMT"
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/ Steve_Kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk wrote:
> > Right now xfaces shows
> > me which messages arrived for a brief period of time and then
> > regardless of whether I have touched them or not it changes
> > into nomail.
> 
> This is probably gnus adding the Status: RO header to the message,
> after determining that you have mail, and what it is. Or perhaps,
> you're using a POP/IMAP server, and the daemon is doing that. Either
> way, xfaces decides that such messages aren't "interesting", because
> they've already been "read", and doesn't display them.
> 

My guess is that the behavior is probably caused by either the POP server
or xfaces. As far as I know, GNUS does not touch the /usr/mail files until
you hit 'g' to have gnus pull the mail out of /usr/mail into the gnus
buffers (unless you set up GNUS to automatically retrieve mail which
I don't do).

> If you want to change this behaviour, you should be able to do it
> by fiddling with the XFaces.ignoreMessageBindings resource.

I'll try that. If I get it to work I'll let you know. I have already
tried to comment out that resource but that did not make any difference
(in case this makes any difference, I'm running xfaces on HPUX 10.01).

> 
> Thanks for asking this question - this behaviour bugged me too, but
> I haven't bothered looking for an answer before now. :-)
> 

As I said before I'm new to faces/xfaces but I'm very surprised that
this would be the default behavior. The package seems very well thought
out and designed in many other respects - that's why I was hoping
that it was just me misunderstanding how to set some resource that
was causing this behavior.

--
Tomislav


From faces-request  Wed Jan 21 11:36:19 1998
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Subject: solved (xfaces - how to control duration of msg display)
Organization: Advanced Investment Technology
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From: Tomislav Goles <tom@ait-tech.com>
Date: 21 Jan 1998 11:23:06 -0500
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> This is probably gnus adding the Status: RO header to the message,
> after determining that you have mail, and what it is. Or perhaps,
> you're using a POP/IMAP server, and the daemon is doing that. Either
> way, xfaces decides that such messages aren't "interesting", because
> they've already been "read", and doesn't display them.

> If you want to change this behaviour, you should be able to do it
> by fiddling with the XFaces.ignoreMessageBindings resource.

The solution (at least for me was to re-define the ignoreMessageBindings
in the following way (notice that the string you put there could be
any regular expression that you hope will never show up in any
header line - so in effect you are telling xfaces to ignore something
that will never match (or to put in other words - ignore nothing).
Why is this not a default is an interesting question (if you just comment
this resource out you get the behavior which I described earlier - my
guess is that this default is hard coded somewhere in xfaces sources).

XFaces.ignoreMessageBindings:	\
	Status:	xfaces-ignore-nothing-in-the-header


From faces-request  Tue Feb  3 13:36:56 1998
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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:35:15 -0500
From: kinzler@alamode.hmrc.kines.umich.edu (Steve Kinzler)
Message-Id: <199802031835.NAA20907@hmrc.kines.umich.edu>
To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: HTML version of this mailing list's archives now available
Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu

Dear Faces Mailing List Subscribers,

Past years' annual archives of this mailing list are now available in
an indexed HTML format for Web viewing, as well as the mailbox format
they've always been available in.

	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/ftp/faces/mailing_list/

and enter any of the ????-html directories.

-- 
from the brain of Steve Kinzler    /o)\    kinzler@cs.indiana.edu
an organ with a mind of its own    \(o/    (734)669-7204
              http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/kinzler.html
Requisite lame / acknowledge wateriness / flameproof anesthetist.


From faces-request  Tue Aug 18 10:33:28 1998
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To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Faces-enabled clients
X-Url: http://ellingsen.home.ml.org/
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Organization: The Church of XEmacs
X-Face: 2nmhSqC#uKZMez_vZ5dd(]_w,y8B{,G>$2+MoI72o!D;"WdJZY'MKE0BJoyq#E$j;9!'"@<
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From: Kristian Ellingsen <kellings@hl.telia.no>
Date: 18 Aug 1998 12:38:55 +0200
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Lines: 8
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Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu

Does anybody have a reference to a Web resource where I can find a list of
faces-enabled mail/news-clients (I know of XEmacs/Gnus, which I am using
myself).
-- 
KRISTIAN ELLINGSEN, +47 905 13 552
http://ellingsen.home.ml.org/
mailto:kellings@hl.telia.no
/\..A billion saved is a billion earned../\



From faces-request  Tue Aug 18 10:39:51 1998
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:39:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Steve Kinzler <kinzler@cs.indiana.edu>
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To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Faces-enabled clients
References: <m3g1euo9q8.fsf@ellingsen2.dyn.ml.org>
Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu

Sent 18Aug98 from kellings@hl.telia.no to faces@cs.indiana.edu
+---------- Faces-enabled clients ----------
| Does anybody have a reference to a Web resource where I can find a list
| of faces-enabled mail/news-clients (I know of XEmacs/Gnus, which I am
| using myself).

The Faces Archive at

	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/ftp/faces/

is exactly what you want.

If anyone has updates for this page, please let me know.

-- 
from the brain of Steve Kinzler    /o)\    kinzler@cs.indiana.edu
an organ with a mind of its own    \(o/    (734)669-7204
              http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/kinzler.html
Unbeknown Pliocene / singsong wheedle reinstate / scattergood loris.


From faces-request  Fri Sep  4 14:18:10 1998
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:05:40 +0100 (BST)
From: "T.J.A. Thurman" <tjat2@cam.ac.uk>
X-Sender: tjat2@club.eng.cam.ac.uk
To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Making the picons database distributed
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96L.980904184157.4204A-100000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk>
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Just an idea I was turning over and wondered what people thought...

It could be worthwhile to store (parts of) the picons DB in some
distributed format. Remember that many years ago the Internet's host names
table was stored in a standard text file, which grew into the distributed
DNS we have now? Similarly, it might be useful to have the option of
keeping picons for a particular site on a machine at that site.

The WWW may as well be harnessed to do this. The picon for the user 
foo@bar.com could be stored, for example, at
	http://www.bar.com/0picons/users/com/bar/foo/face.gif
and the "unknown" picon for the same domain would then be found at
	http://www.bar.com/0picons/domains/com/bar/unknown/face.gif

Note:
1. I suggested "0picons" because that name is unlikely to be used anywhere
   else ("picons" could be a directory discussing picons as a subject, for
   example).
2. The reduplication of the address in the URL allows sites which already
   have a picons database merely to symlink "0picons" to /usr/lib/picons.
   (Such a site could, of course, also be used as a local mirror of the
   whole database for local machines.)
3. It might be more sensible to remove the "users"/"domains" part of the
   address. However, this may conflict with the symlink benefits mentioned
   above.
4. Naming the host "www" would save trouble in setting up. It would have 
   been elegant to standardise on a name such as "picons", but this might
   delay acceptance.
5. Of the three formats widely used for picons, it may be best to
   standardise on GIF for these purposes. Only GIF and XPM can subsume
   the other two, and XPM is not widely supported by browsers (AFAIK).

I'd suggest the order of looking for a picon would then be as follows:
	1. check local databases, as discussed in the Picons FAQ
	2. check the local site, as above
	3. check the Picons Search Engine.

Naturally, this sort of thing needs to exist in widely available mailers
in order to gain widespread acceptance. The availability of the source for
Netscape, and mozilla.org's acceptance of improvements, provides an
interesting opportunity for this.

Any thoughts?

Thomas

Thomas Thurman, Sidney Sussex College, | Any attempt to brew coffee with a
Cambridge. CB2 3HU  |  tjat2@cam.ac.uk | teapot should result in the error
http://www.sid.cam.ac.uk/~tjat2/ | ><> | code "418 I'm a teapot". --RFC2324




From faces-request  Sat Sep  5 14:13:29 1998
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To: "T.J.A. Thurman" <tjat2@cam.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
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* T. J. A. Thurman

| Naturally, this sort of thing needs to exist in widely available mailers
| in order to gain widespread acceptance. 

Yes, I agree. If the 'faces feature' is added to Microsoft Internet
Explorer, 'cs.indiana.edu' will be overloaded, and a distributed system
would be preferable. 

One should have thought that 'faces' support would have been added to
MS-IE and NS-Navigator ages ago, have anybody in the 'faces team' tried
to talk to them? After all, faces makes Usenet a more enjoyable place.
-- 
KRISTIAN ELLINGSEN, +47 905 13 552
http://ellingsen.home.ml.org/
mailto:kellings@online.no
/\..Life is difficult because it is non-linear../\


From faces-request  Sun Sep  6 15:17:53 1998
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To: Kristian Ellingsen <kellings@online.no>
cc: "T.J.A. Thurman" <tjat2@cam.ac.uk>, faces@cs.indiana.edu
From: "David May, at a FreeBSD 2.2.6 site, somewhere in the Outback" <mayd@cygnus.uwa.edu.au>
Reply-to: mayd@cygnus.uwa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed 
In-reply-to: Your message of "05 Sep 1998 14:32:18 +0200."
             <m3yarybuzx.fsf@ellingsen.dyn.ml.org> 
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I am glad you said this and I entirely agree.  The Internet has become too 
serious in recent times. Faces do make it more enjoyable (and that is one 
reason why I use the exmh mail agent).It would be nice if faces were more 
widely supported.

I downloaded the entire faces database a few years ago. That was a rather 
large amount of data to FTP. It occupies a sizeable chunk of disk space too. 
The database gets more out of date each day as there does not seem to be a 
convenient way for me to keep it current.

It would be nice to be able to get updates to the picons database from 
time-to-time, e.g. via mailing list or CVSUP. Even better, would be the 
ability to retrieve faces in the same way that PGP public keys can be retrieve 
as needed from public online databases via HTTP protocol, or via finger 
protocol from a .plan file.


-- 
David May            |  mailto:mayd@cygnus.uwa.edu.au   | Finger for
                     |  finger:mayd@cygnus.uwa.edu.au   | PGP Public Key
                     |  http://cygnus.uwa.edu.au/~mayd  | 

``We are so used to thinking in terms of the `progress' of science that 
it is hard for us to remember that certain matters were better understood 
one hundred years ago.''
                                       Robert Hermann, in introduction to
              Felix Klein, Development of Mathematics in the 19th Century.




From faces-request  Mon Sep  7 18:08:58 1998
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        Kristian Ellingsen <kellings@online.no>
Cc: "T.J.A. Thurman" <tjat2@cam.ac.uk>, faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: RE: Making the picons database distributed 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:47:58 -0400 
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what about putting it into LDAP? I have been very impressed with how the
protocol is so versatile and the sdk so easy to use. I have not used the
replication features of slapd + slurpd but it would seem easier than
building new infrastructure.

> David May, at a FreeBSD 2.2.6 site, somewhere in the Outback
pjjH, typing on an NT box in a tall building in the middle of Manhattan



From faces-request  Mon Sep  7 18:17:56 1998
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On 06/09/98 07:39:47 David May, at a FreeBSD 2.2.6 site, somewhere in the
Outback wrote:
> I am glad you said this and I entirely agree.  The Internet has become
too
> serious in recent times. Faces do make it more enjoyable (and that is one
> reason why I use the exmh mail agent).It would be nice if faces were more
> widely supported.
Too true; I've recently had to move to a Notes system, and I miss my faces!
[pout pout]
> I downloaded the entire faces database a few years ago. That was a rather
> large amount of data to FTP. It occupies a sizeable chunk of disk space
too.
> The database gets more out of date each day as there does not seem to be
a
> convenient way for me to keep it current.
To be honest, I only used the normal database for the company/country
picons. Almost every real face displayed came from an X-Face header or
(more likely) my hand-assembled database snarfed from others' web pages.
I'm aware of exactly one instance where I received mail from someone who
was already in the database.
For distributed systems, HTTP is definitely the protocol to use, but I'd
question whether it should transform the address into a search path as was
suggested. The reason for this is that if someone's address is variable,
you might send out several requests to the server before finding a suitable
image. Think what effect spam would have...
We have a home-grown system where, which serves faces to Wintel users. They
run a program which scans their POP3 mailbox and retrieves addresses, and
sends these addresses verbatim to a CGI script on the faces server. The
server does the hunt for a suitable image, and returns it (in Windows BMP
format, for ease of display). The CGI script is guaranteed to return a
suitable image on the first try, so that the client only ever has to send
one request per address.
One advantage of using a CGI process rather than a simple fetch is that the
local server could pass the request onto a more suitable one, in DNS
fashion, always assuming that there was some way of deciding where to send
it.
The disadvantage, of course, is that it's more vunerable to run a CGI
process than just serving plain files.
Finally, in addition to fancy servers, I see nothing wrong with
distributing the faces database by the simple addition of a different
header:
X-Face-URL: http://www.example.com/faces/com/example/user.gif
steve
PS if you want to get bizarre, you could always have a faces.* USENET
hierarchy, with articles containing updates/additions to the database....




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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:30:54 +0100
From: Daniel Glazman <Daniel.Glazman@der.edf.fr>
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To: "T.J.A. Thurman" <tjat2@cam.ac.uk>
CC: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
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T.J.A. Thurman wrote:
> 
> Just an idea I was turning over and wondered what people thought...
> 
> It could be worthwhile to store (parts of) the picons DB in some
> distributed format.

The opportunity and feasability of this idea has already been discussed
in 1992. I remember that some of us (including myself) faced a barrage
fire from the IETF saying :

	we will never accept that because 1) faces are ugly b) it will
	slow down MUAs c) it will considerably increase traffic d) do
	you really think I want to see the face of the neird who sent
	me a mail yesterday ?-)

points a and d are just stupid. I have been using my own faces-enabled MUA
during 5 years and nothing is more visual than a face or a logo.

points b and c are a real concern.

I have developed in 1991, as part of the Meuf package, a daemon based on
the finger daemon able to answer a picon to a request on a given port.

A call issued by a MUA, on user's request, is for me an implementable
solution. An automatic retrieval of faces for all incoming messages
is IMHO a bandwidth murder.

</Daniel>


From faces-request  Tue Sep  8 07:05:53 1998
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:38:04 +0100
From: Daniel Glazman <Daniel.Glazman@der.edf.fr>
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To: steve_kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk
CC: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
References: <80256678.0031906B.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk>
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steve_kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk wrote:

> Finally, in addition to fancy servers, I see nothing wrong with
> distributing the faces database by the simple addition of a different
> header:
> X-Face-URL: http://www.example.com/faces/com/example/user.gif

In 1991, picons were only XBM and the compface algo was efficient enough
to allow picon integration in X-Face. In 1992, XPM icons stopped that and
the X-Face-URL has been proposed....and abandoned because it implies

	1) HTTP implementation in MUAs
	2) wait until you see the face of the sender

> PS if you want to get bizarre, you could always have a faces.* USENET
> hierarchy, with articles containing updates/additions to the database....

This is not bizarre, this is impossible. Articles are thrown to /dev/null
when they get too old ("too old" is a value set by the newsmaster).
Futhermore, such a call for discussion will never ever reach a consensus
allowing a call for vote !

</Daniel>


From faces-request  Tue Sep  8 07:11:06 1998
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On 08/09/98 09:38:04 Daniel Glazman  wrote:

> In 1991, picons were only XBM and the compface algo was efficient enough
> to allow picon integration in X-Face. In 1992, XPM icons stopped that and
> the X-Face-URL has been proposed....and abandoned because it implies
>
>    1) HTTP implementation in MUAs
>    2) wait until you see the face of the sender
Well, 1's increasingly common anyway, what with the tendency to have active
http links in mail messages. But it doesn't need to be interpreted directly
by the MUA - xfaces could process it. It's just an alternative to designing
a server.

2 isn't *that* much of a problem, if the choice is between waiting while a
background process fetches a message, and not seeing a face at all. Again,
the advance of OS technology has made this more feasible.

However, Paul Harrington's suggestion for using LDAP is also a possibility
- but I suspect that there will be more resistance to a publicly-available
LDAP server at most sites, than to a web server. This is partially because
web servers are more understood, and partially because an LDAP server is
more likely to contain internal information too. An added aspect is that an
external interface to an LDAP server is most likely to be a web server
anyway....

> This is not bizarre, this is impossible. Articles are thrown to /dev/null
> when they get too old ("too old" is a value set by the newsmaster).

I know; but it's possible to have a "downstream" site that is really just
your local faces server, so that you're using NNTP as the transport and
update mechanism, not the storage mechanism. But it's not really a sensible
suggestion.

> Futhermore, such a call for discussion will never ever reach a consensus
> allowing a call for vote !
True (and nor should it...)

steve




From faces-request  Tue Sep  8 10:27:24 1998
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Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
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Daniel Glazman <Daniel.Glazman@der.edf.fr> writes:
>> PS if you want to get bizarre, you could always have a faces.* USENET
>> hierarchy
> This is not bizarre, this is impossible.

Actually, it doesn't strike me as either bizarre or impossible.  It
could be an entirely reasonable *update* mechanism, as the original
poster suggested.  Sites just have to feed faces.* into a bot that
recognizes faces in the article stream and updates the database.  The
biggest problem would be figuring out how to deal with authentication so 
that some vandal doesn't replace all the pics in the database with
Barney...

Brian.


From faces-request  Thu Sep 10 07:16:09 1998
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:36:11 -0400
From: John Kodis <kodis@jagunet.com>
To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
Reply-To: kodis@jagunet.com
References: <Pine.HPP.3.96L.980904184157.4204A-100000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> <m3yarybuzx.fsf@ellingsen.dyn.ml.org>
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On Sat, Sep 05, 1998 at 02:32:18PM +0200, Kristian Ellingsen wrote:

> One should have thought that 'faces' support would have been added to
> MS-IE and NS-Navigator ages ago, have anybody in the 'faces team' tried
> to talk to them? After all, faces makes Usenet a more enjoyable place.

Now that Netscape has released the source code for Mozilla, all that
is required is a sufficently skilled and motivated hacker with a
little spare time on his hands.


From faces-request  Thu Sep 10 08:17:02 1998
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On 10/09/98 01:36:11 John Kodis  wrote:


> Now that Netscape has released the source code for Mozilla, all that
> is required is a sufficently skilled and motivated hacker with a
> little spare time on his hands.
and a little spare space on his disk; I downloaded the sources a short
while ago for this very purpose, and was somewhat panicked by the fact that
the gzipped tar distribution is 16.5MB. My disk now spins unevenly, due to
this large blob of
bits on one side. :-)

So far, I haven't had the time to look deeply, but when I do have the time,
I probably won't have the nerve. :-)

steve




From faces-request  Fri Sep 11 12:08:50 1998
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To: faces@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Making the picons database distributed
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* steve kilbane

| (...) the gzipped tar distribution is 16.5MB.

And it is just getting bigger and bigger ... Still, I'm glad it is
available for downloading, so that those of us who aren't permanently
connected to the Internet can enjoy faces.
-- 
KRISTIAN ELLINGSEN, +47 905 13 552
http://ellingsen.home.ml.org/
mailto:kellings@online.no
/\..Time sure flies when you don't know what you're doing../\



From faces-request  Wed Oct 28 15:25:15 1998
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From: ccke@eng.buffalo.edu (Chih-Chung Ke)
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Subject: help
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Hi,

   Does anyone know where I can get a color face database?  Thanks.

Chih-Chung Ke


From faces-request  Wed Nov 25 17:52:14 1998
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Subject: faces problems
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:23:06 -0800
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I've run into a number of problems in running faces 1.6.1 on Linux
2.1.139.

The first appears to be in x11.c in start_tool() (the main loop?).
There the timeout for select is initialized outside a for loop,
apparently with the assumption that select will not modify the
timeout.  Unfortunately, the call to select() appears to be doing
just that.  The timeout gets set to zeroed and faces starts using
lots of CPU.

The second problem is a segmentation fault in main.c:

  if (*community != (char) NULL)
    {
      s = rindex(community, '.') ;
      if (s == (char *) NULL)
        {
          STRCAT(strcat(t, "/"), community) ;
          community = "" ;
          s = "." ;
        }
      else
        {   
          *s = '\0' ;
          STRCAT(strcat(t, "/"), s+1) ;
        }
      i = searchfacedb(b, facepath, community, user) ;
      *t = '\0' ;
      *s = '.' ;
      if (i) return(i) ;
    }

What appears to be happening is that 's' is in some cases set to
point to the constant string, ".".  Later, the "*s = '.'" attempts to
write to the constant string.

--Mark


