From faces-request Tue Jan 5 12:42:01 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02756; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:42:01 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02751; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:41:59 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04500; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:49:41 PST Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.com (gatekeeper.us.oracle.com) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28851; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:49:29 PST Received: from af9hp.us.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.com (5.59.11/37.7) id AA01277; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:48:43 PST Received: by af9hp.us.oracle.com (1.37.109.4/37.7) id AA07887; Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:48:24 -0800 Message-Id: <9301052048.AA07887@af9hp.us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:48:24 -0800 From: Mark Warren To: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Slow down with increasing size of machine.tab, people.tab ? X-Face: 57{69*vgxk'QClsaj8$%YIHhN@Ot?5vP]>)){Ib-Imomztl}FnjqTJL-Bu$qz2YTXc>3TwR t]p:W\>w0E1jD^HD5E|NH9}F<-NB:!gLzt=L)J{s/(w4U2IXjo'Xc1z=C+D>y=r}v~8n^\CR71_U+H H}tu_8c/M%Jy@6.B}3cmd`3W!|Z,eV$x&1r|TR+3KoX[l Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04332; Wed, 6 Jan 93 01:50:02 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25515; Wed, 6 Jan 93 01:57:51 PST Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.2.10]) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09472; Wed, 6 Jan 93 01:57:34 PST Received: from ncl.catless (catless.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 for ) with SMTP; Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:35:15 GMT From: Lindsay F. Marshall Message-Id: Subject: Two questions To: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM (Faces Mailing List) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:25:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTn X.%%nlDSrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SU q Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00361; Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:48:34 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01530; Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:50:24 PST Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15253; Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:50:15 PST Received: from af9hp.us.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.com (5.59.11/37.7) id AA22897; Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:50:09 PST Received: by af9hp.us.oracle.com (1.37.109.4/37.7) id AA28668; Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:49:23 -0800 Message-Id: <9301190149.AA28668@af9hp.us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 17:49:23 -0800 From: Mark Warren To: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Elisp to add an X-Face header to Gnus postings... X-Face: 57{69*vgxk'QClsaj8$%YIHhN@Ot?5vP]>)){Ib-Imomztl}FnjqTJL-Bu$qz2YTXc>3TwR t]p:W\>w0E1jD^HD5E|NH9}F<-NB:!gLzt=L)J{s/(w4U2IXjo'Xc1z=C+D>y=r}v~8n^\CR71_U+H H}tu_8c/M%Jy@6.B}3cmd`3W!|Z,eV$x&1r|TR+3KoX[l Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00430; Mon, 15 Feb 93 11:50:57 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09127; Mon, 15 Feb 93 11:58:17 PST Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01763; Mon, 15 Feb 93 11:53:04 PST Message-Id: <9302151953.AA01763@Sun.COM> Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07484; Mon, 15 Feb 1993 14:52:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 14:52:58 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM, weather-users@zorch.sf-bay.org Subject: New faces application: iconic weather forecasts Content-Length: 2181 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM To faces@stard.eng.sun.com,weather-users@zorch.sf-bay.org in mail: I've recently completed a new applications for "faces" -- iconic weather forecasts. It's available in the cs.indiana.edu faces archive. To try it out, you'll need: pub/faces/scripts.tar.Z the "wx" and "wx.faces" files therein pub/faces/weather.tar.Z the bitmap database for this application scripts.tar.Z also contains a revised "faces" front-end script that implements this application as "faces -W [ ]". Without this script, you'll need to run it with something like: faces -f /usr/local/faces/weather -p 1800 -e '/usr/local/faces/bin/wx.faces [ ]' with paths adjusted appropriately, of course. And "wx" has to be installed in your executables path. The "wx.faces" script can be reconfigured at the top for the location of perl on your system, the default city code and the weather command to use ("wx" is the default, but other such weather programs are available and suitable). "wx -st <2-letter-state-abbrev>" will lists that state's city codes. Internet access is necessary. Since the bitmaps to display are determined from heuristic pattern matching on the textual output of "wx", their selection is not always 100% correct. If anyone identifies a case where it fails, feel free to forward the offending "wx" output to me and I'll attempt to account for it in future revisions of this script. Also welcome are better and additional bitmaps for the weather database. ========================================================================= || Note to weather-users readers: || || Faces is a window-based tool for visually monitoring lists with icons. || Typically, it is used to monitor mail, print queues or users on a || system. It contains graphical interfaces for NeWS, SunView, XView and || X11. The development of faces is led by Rich Burridge || (richb@stard.eng.sun.com). Source code for faces is available in || cs.indiana.edu anonymous ftp, file pub/faces/faces.tar.Z with other || related items in that directory. ========================================================================= Enjoy, Steve Kinzler kinzler@cs.indiana.edu From faces-request Wed Feb 17 11:28:39 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA05497; Wed, 17 Feb 93 11:28:39 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA05492; Wed, 17 Feb 93 11:28:37 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18409; Wed, 17 Feb 93 11:36:20 PST Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23600; Wed, 17 Feb 93 11:30:33 PST Message-Id: <9302171930.AA23600@Sun.COM> Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA14380; Wed, 17 Feb 1993 14:30:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 14:30:10 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Content-Length: 5669 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Written 17 Feb 93 11:44:10 +0100 by Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl in mail: +---------- "New faces application & faces monitoring in general" ---------- | Hi, | Below follow some ideas wrt faces, discussing the use of | faces for dynamically monitoring processes, and proposals | that make faces more 'powerful' for that purpose. | Maybe this is something for the list.. if you think so, | please forward it. I do, and will. You've identified critical issues that need to be addressed for future faces development, and I think your suggestions are sound. I understand Rich has plans to divide the faces functionality into three components in future releases: a display manager, a database server and an application. When that happens, these issues will be especially pertinent. | I have been working on a faces application, that links 'faces' | to an Irc (Internet Relay Chat) client. | Irc is a real-time conferencing system, a sort-of multi-user, | multi-channel talk. The discussions are 'grouped' in so-called | channels, a user can participate in discussions on several channels | at the same time. | The irc-faces 'program' can display a faces window for each | channel the user is on, displaying a face for each 'participant' | on the channel. The windows are automagically updated - whenever | someone joins or leaves a 'monitored' channel, the corresponding | window is automatically updated. | If there is interest for this particular program, i can send it. Sounds interesting. I can place a copy in the faces ftp archive, if you'd like. | For the implementation i use 'pseudo-mailboxes' that are monitored | by faces programs - for each channel a faces-program is started, | that monitors a pseudo mailbox. The pseudo-mailboxes are updated | by the interface part 'linked' (via a pipe) to the ircclient. | One of the problems with this interface is that the faces programs | use polling to check for changes in the (pseudo)mailbox files. | It would be interesting if faces could be made to check the mailbox | in response to a signal - in that case there would be no need for | polling; the interface program just sends the signal to the faces- | program that monitors a pseudo-mailbox, after it has been updated. | The key point is that i want faces to update its information, and | i have the information at hand, and i know the process number of | the faces process (the program that ahs the information is the | one that started the faces programs) | all that is needed is a way to pass the new info to the faces process - | if files are used, it would be sufficient to be able to tell faces | that it is time to re-examine the file. | Such a signal-responsiveness would also be interesting combined | with the -e option: in that case the signal would cause the faces | program to re-invoke the program. | This would make it easier to use faces to monitor processes | without polling overhead, and without having to use the mailbox | trick that i use in irc-faces. Yep. It'd also be nice to have -e program reinvocation by user request, such as typing a particular character in the faces window. | Another interfacing possibility would be via the stdin of the faces | program: | have faces read from stdin (eg. in the format for the -e option), | and have a special 'end-of input' symbol, or rather 'display-it-now' | symbol, that indicates that all info has been read. | Or, in the header, next to the Cols and Rows settings, before the | faces information records, indicate how many records will follow. | In that case, the faces window could be updated by writing a new | set of records (followed by a 'display-it-now' record) to the faces- | stdin. | Another problem with the current irc-faces program that it gets | slow if a large faces window (say containing more than 10-15 faces) | needs to be updated. More generally: | Because in most cases (at least in my application) only parts | (small parts) of the faces window needs to be updated (eg only | one 'face' is to be added or removed) it would be interesting | if faces would work as incrementally as possible: it only gets rid | of a superflous face, or reads the data for the new one, without | re-reading face bitmaps for faces that are not changed (even if | the text that is to be printed with a face changes, it would not | be necessary to reread the face bits themselves..) | (For this kind of dynamic monitoring _speed_ is very important) | Maybe this is already implemented (I didn't check the code).. | Some sort of 'caching' like this would not only be interesting | for the mailbox interface, but also for the -e interface | (when it is made to re-excute the program on a signal), | and the proposed stdin interface. | I hope there is something useful among the ideas presented above, | I wouldn't mind to invest some time to (try to) implement (some of) | those ideas, if people would think they might be useful, but i thought | it would be better to have them discussed before i start to hack | faces - if only to allow some coordination of the work on faces. Go for it! The bitmap caching optimization could be immediately useful. Rich Burridge leads the development for faces. You should be able to reach him at richb@stard.eng.sun.com these days. | Regards, | Axel. | tel. +31 53 893774 fax. +31 53 333815 | University of Twente, Tele-Informatics & Open Systems Group | P.O. Box 217 NL-7500 AE Enschede The Netherlands | "ili ne sciis ke estas neebla do ili simple faris" -- Loesje -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ From richb Wed Feb 17 14:29:45 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06334; Wed, 17 Feb 93 14:29:45 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06329; Wed, 17 Feb 93 14:29:43 PST Date: Wed, 17 Feb 93 14:29:43 PST From: richb (Rich Burridge) Message-Id: <9302172229.AA06329@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> To: faces Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general Cc: Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 982 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM I intend to get back to working on faces in the next couple of months. The RealWork(TM) project is almost complete, and this will free up my time. My initial intention is to include all the bug fixes, patches and new programs/scripts I've received, into a new release and make it available via ftp for various people to try on various configurations. Sun now have a stable version of SVR4, so faces needs to be fixed to properly work with that. I no longer intend to support the NeWS version of faces. It's been broken in the last couple of releases anyhow. When Sun officiallly release their version of DPS, I'll put PostScript support back into faces using that. After the expected followup patch to correct minor problems with this new version, I intend to add in color XPM support. This will give other people something to do (ie. generate hundreds of color icons) while I work on the big project of dividing faces into three as Steve mentioned. More in a month or so... From faces-request Wed Feb 17 16:15:57 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06427; Wed, 17 Feb 93 16:15:57 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06422; Wed, 17 Feb 93 16:15:55 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09957; Wed, 17 Feb 93 16:23:41 PST Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB08199; Wed, 17 Feb 93 13:07:14 PST Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA15351; Wed, 17 Feb 93 13:06:35 -0800 Received: by decprl.prl.dec.com id AA22271; Wed, 17 Feb 93 22:06:24 +0100 Received: by airstrike.prl.dec.com (5.61++prl/Ultrix3.0-C+PRL-1.54) id AA09107; Wed, 17 Feb 93 22:06:14 +0100 From: Boyd (Get in The Ring, ...) Roberts Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 22:01:52 +0100 To: "Steve Kinzler" , Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general In-Reply-To: <9302171930.AA23600@Sun.COM> Message-Id: <199302172201.9092.faces.baday@prl.dec.com> X-Face: #"03$i1:"_[Hbg~GCPw}`+d4_R`}RaDfYixB`n-mCB0E8m#tNd>uyd[d)`nEix7Bys(:o#o2y7$(=,&BTXdH7)Hm5jP}H5:y]}0GT4?uTT(Y0(Cu7tWBXj\|q\@jZ8 Y_qn8)NV0*$uO][i7p"K2>Kg( Content-Length: 0 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM all i see here is a plethora of junk retrofitted into something that doesn't even work correctly at it's _base level_ functionality. and that's progress? From faces-request Thu Feb 18 07:04:50 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06868; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:04:50 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06863; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:04:48 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26787; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:12:42 PST Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08828; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:06:54 PST Received: from eua.ericsson.se by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.12) id AA05569; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:06:51 +0100 Received: from ms.eua.ericsson.se by eua.ericsson.se (4.1/EUA-2.1) id AA19616; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:06:50 +0100 Received: from euas40c48.eua.ericsson.se by ms.eua.ericsson.se (4.1/MS-2.1) id AA23983; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:06:49 +0100 From: Gunnar.Forsgren@eua.ericsson.se (Gunnar Forsgren) Received: by euas40c48.eua.ericsson.se (4.1/client-1.3) id AA19337; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:06:48 +0100 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:06:48 +0100 Message-Id: <9302181506.AA19337@euas40c48.eua.ericsson.se> To: kinzler@cs.indiana.edu, Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl, boyd@prl.dec.com Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Content-Length: 982 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM > From: Boyd (Get in The Ring, ...) Roberts > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 22:01:52 +0100 > To: "Steve Kinzler" , Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl > Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM > Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general > In-Reply-To: <9302171930.AA23600@Sun.COM> > X-Face: #"03$i1:"_[Hbg~GCPw}`+d4_R`}RaDfYixB`n-mCB0E8m#tNd>uyd[d Qw-B0lP>)`nEix7Bys(:o#o2y7$(=,&BTXdH7)Hm5jP}H5:y]}0GT4?uTT(Y0(Cu7tWBXj\|q\@jZ8 > Y_qn8)NV0*$uO][i7p"K2>Kg( > Content-Length: 155 > Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM > X-Lines: 4 > > all i see here is a plethora of junk retrofitted into something that > doesn't even work correctly at it's _base level_ functionality. > > and that's progress? > OK Boyd, so what is your contribution ? Try /dev/null for a response that is on your level :-( --- Gunnar Forsgren Ericsson Telecom AB email: S-126 25 Stockholm, SWEDEN "No face is playing safe" From faces-request Fri Feb 19 12:36:09 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00585; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:36:09 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00580; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:36:07 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02548; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:44:16 PST Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13030; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:38:10 PST Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA05378; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:37:42 -0800 Received: by decprl.prl.dec.com id AA05467; Fri, 19 Feb 93 21:37:32 +0100 Received: by airstrike.prl.dec.com (5.61++prl/Ultrix3.0-C+PRL-1.54) id AA04853; Fri, 19 Feb 93 21:37:24 +0100 From: Boyd (Get in The Ring, ...) Roberts Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 21:21:33 +0100 To: Gunnar.Forsgren@eua.ericsson.se (Gunnar Forsgren), kinzler@cs.indiana.edu, Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general In-Reply-To: <9302181506.AA19337@euas40c48.eua.ericsson.se> Message-Id: <199302192121.4830.faces.bader@prl.dec.com> X-Face: #"03$i1:"_[Hbg~GCPw}`+d4_R`}RaDfYixB`n-mCB0E8m#tNd>uyd[d)`nEix7Bys(:o#o2y7$(=,&BTXdH7)Hm5jP}H5:y]}0GT4?uTT(Y0(Cu7tWBXj\|q\@jZ8 Y_qn8)NV0*$uO][i7p"K2>Kg( Content-Length: 1247 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM ok, i've got some 10 or so replies saying: `so, what would you know about it boyd?' i'll tell you this: `faces' is based on the Eighth Edition UNIX `vismon'/`sysmon', a system i personally booted up, bug fixed, and enhanced in Sydney with John Mackin and Piers Lauder. another piece of the puzzle is that i've used the Plan 9 version (whose name i forget) at Bell Labs; it's small it works, and is a pleasure to use. you can try and mail my Bell Labs Plan 9 account, but it will bounce. yes, i've read _Face The Nation_ i have a Ninth Edition manual, as well as both Tenth Edition manuals. the PostScript Plan 9 manual sits on my desk. what i am saying here is that that i can distinguish between good and bad software. i use faces every day, and everyday it's blatant that it's core functionality is broken. so, in closing, i'll quote Guns 'N Roses (Slash/Lank/Rose): don't damn me when i speak a piece of my mind 'cause silence isn't golden when i'm holding it inside 'cause i've been where i've been an i've seen what i've seen i put the pen to paper 'cause it's all a part or me -- _Don't Damn Me_ Guns 'N Roses Use Your Illusion I From faces-request Fri Feb 19 13:16:51 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00626; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:16:51 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00621; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:16:49 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05142; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:24:57 PST Received: from thalidomide.lucid.com by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19389; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:18:46 PST Received: by thalidomide.lucid.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14439; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:18:47 PST Date: Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:18:47 PST Message-Id: <9302192118.AA14439@thalidomide.lucid.com> X-Windows: Complex nonsolutions to simple nonproblems. From: Jamie Zawinski Original-Sender: jwz@lucid.com To: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general In-Reply-To: Steve Kinzler's message of Wed 17-Feb-93 14:30:10 -0500 <9302171930.AA23600@Sun.COM> References: <9302171930.AA23600@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 26129 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Steve Kinzler wrote: > > Written 17 Feb 93 11:44:10 +0100 by Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl in mail: > | Another interfacing possibility would be via the stdin of the faces > | program: > | have faces read from stdin (eg. in the format for the -e option), > | and have a special 'end-of input' symbol, or rather 'display-it-now' > | symbol, that indicates that all info has been read. I wrote something like this last year, but never quite got around to finishing it. It doesn't seem likely that I will any time soon, so I might as well post it here. (I sent this to Rich Burridge the other day, and he said he'd have a look at it when he gets a chance, but maybe someone else would be interested in hacking on it as well.) "biffomatic" is an Xt program that reads from stdin and displays the images that it is given on a window. It can display more than one at once, and manages an internal cache (with parameters settable at run-time) so that it's really pretty fast. It understands xbm, xpm, and faces. It normally is handed file names, but it can display an X-Face: line handed it on stdin as well. The idea is that some external program will launch biffomatic, and that other program is where the intelligence for what should be displayed goes. I hacked up some emacs-lisp code to do this, but that part is not quite done. % ls -l biffo* -rw-r--r-- 1 jwz 17617 Feb 19 13:11 biffomatic.tar.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 jwz 24309 Feb 19 13:12 biffomatic.tar.Z.uu % zcat biffomatic.tar.Z | tar -vtf - -rw-r--r-- jwz/hackers 1588 Jul 14 17:09 1992 Imakefile -rw-r--r-- jwz/hackers 26684 Jul 3 18:50 1992 biffomatic.c -rw-r--r-- jwz/hackers 9193 Jul 7 12:19 1992 biffomatic.el Enjoy... 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I'm somewhat inclined to agree. There is no arguing that a large amount of time has been spent on this project -- perhaps what is needed is just a better structure for change. When the person who maintains the software must spend a large amount of time doing real work, progress stops. I really like the ideas that have been talked about -- configurable visual lists of whatever database there is seems to be essentially what we all want. We just need to generalize it. The faces project should not be bogged down with hooks into everything, what it should be is a iconic view of lists - any list. These lists could be created with your basic generic unix filter type approach. This way someone can concentrate on writing an application to read any list and find the correct icons, sounds, etc, and other people can concentrate on little programs to build the lists -- mail, printer queues, job queues, who's logged into what workstations on the net, who's on this IRC "frequency," daily tasks of things to get done, news groups that need reading, attorney general candidates, etc. I can think of many reasons people don't use this software. We need to address them. I've got this feeling like I'm soon to be flamed, but I'm not sure why. Please respond with constructive critisism, I know I tried to. I would like to donate my time on making it easier (and therefore portable and more bug-free) for people to get their images into the various formats. I'd also like to clean up that area of the documentation. Any other takers? -- Matt Hughes hughes@msi.umn.edu From richb Fri Feb 19 13:42:40 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00683; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:42:40 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00678; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:42:38 PST Date: Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:42:38 PST From: richb (Rich Burridge) Message-Id: <9302192142.AA00678@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> To: faces Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1019 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Faces in it's current form is definitely not vismon. I fully agree with Boyd on that. I also agree with him (and Rob Pike) that the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principal is the way to go. This is why I hate SVR4 and X. Faces has just grown and grown over time. This is why I want to get back to something close to Pike's original design, which will involve spliting faces in three. Theoretically, just monitoring your mail should then require a much smaller program. I suspect the good old SVR4 and X libraries will bloat the working set out though. Before I do that, I want to give people an existing working faces program. The last fix for the X-Face support that James Ashton sent me a year ago has still to be officially applied. Trying to do this and keep down a RealJob(TM) has been impossible over the last year. Hence no updates to faces during that period (or any of the other four programs I maintain mailing lists for and freely support). I really do respond to constructive critisism (given time). From faces-request Mon Mar 1 06:09:17 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00315; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:09:17 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1) by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00310; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:09:16 PST Received: from Sun.COM (sun-barr) by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01960; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:19:29 PST Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24624; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:11:18 PST Received: from utis179.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (4.1/RBCS-2.3mx) id AA00527; Mon, 1 Mar 93 15:10:25 +0100 Received: by utis179.cs.utwente.nl (4.1/RBCS-1.0.1) id AA18129; Mon, 1 Mar 93 15:10:30 +0100 Message-Id: <9303011410.AA18129@utis179.cs.utwente.nl> To: "Steve Kinzler" Cc: faces@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: Re: New faces application & faces monitoring in general In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Feb 93 14:30:10 -0500 From: Axel Belinfante Organisation: University of Twente, Dept of Informatics, Tele Informatics Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands Phone: +31 53 893774 Telefax: +31 53 333815 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 93 15:10:29 +0100 Original-Sender: belinfan@cs.utwente.nl Content-Length: 3001 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Sorry for not taking part in the discussion on the list: right before the discussion started, i went for a short vacation - only to see the 'results' of the discussion after my return. 'Technical' note: I do receive the list, so there is no need to send direct replies to me, as well as a copy of it to the list - a reply to the list should suffice, unless you want to send a personal reply, in which case the list probably doesn't need a copy... [intro and proposal for forwardding to the list deleted] > I do, and will. You've identified critical issues that need to be > addressed for future faces development, and I think your suggestions are > sound. I understand Rich has plans to divide the faces functionality > into three components in future releases: a display manager, a database > server and an application. When that happens, these issues will be > especially pertinent. Such a split would make lots of things much easier and more managable, i suppose. As you will notice when you look at the ircfaces stuff, it uses the faces program only as a display program. A perl script does the database lookups, and forms the interface to the application (ie. the irc client program) The interface between application and database manager is very much tailored to the needs of the application. The interface between the database mananager and the display manager is very hackish (IMHO) - it uses 'pseudo-mailboxes' that are checked (using polling, i guess) by the display manager programs (the faces programs) [description of IrcFaces deleted] > Sounds interesting. I can place a copy in the faces ftp archive, if > you'd like. Please do so.. it would be interesting to get some feedback on it. (and maybe some people might want to use it - or hack it to fit their needs ;-) Can i simply ftp it to the moose.cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces/incoming directory? I tried to clean up (or at least document) IrcFaces to make it 'usable' (installable) by a somewhat experienced faces user. Feedback on the doc (in a README file) would be welcome as well ;-) As stated in the README file, i don't plan to spend much time on it anymore, but i guess it might be interesting enough to share it (at least for me.. wrt feedback ;-) [description of ideas, and my expression of interest to spend some time on their implementation deleted] > Go for it! The bitmap caching optimization could be immediately > useful. I guess it might be better to wait until the ideas for the splitted version of faces are more clear... > Rich Burridge leads the development for faces. You should be able > to reach him at richb@stard.eng.sun.com these days. Ok. i will, when i have more time for hacking, and ideas are clear.. Regards, Axel. tel. +31 53 893774 fax. +31 53 333815 University of Twente, Tele-Informatics & Open Systems Group P.O. Box 217 NL-7500 AE Enschede The Netherlands "ili ne sciis ke estas neebla do ili simple faris" -- Loesje From richb Sat Mar 20 10:26:26 1993 Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01909; Sat, 20 Mar 93 10:26:26 PST Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM Return-Path: Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01904; Sat, 20 Mar 93 10:26:25 PST Message-Id: <9303201826.AA01904@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> From: richb@stard (Rich Burridge) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1993 10:26:24 -0800 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: faces Subject: faces: looking for a new organiser. Content-Length: 1954 Errors-To: faces-request@Aus.Sun.COM I've been thinking about this a lot over the last week. What with the recent announcement by Sun (and five other companies), the RealWork(TM) workload in my group has become tremendous. Just when I thought I was going to have spare time in order to turn out a new version of faces, I now find that this has all changed. I fully realise I will no longer have time to do this. Of the five mailing lists I contain for some of my various programs, faces is the most active, and has the most interesting potential. In order to exploit that potential, and to start people producing some innovating uses for it, it needs new management. So I'm looking for somebody to do this. Things that need doing include: * Applying all the outstanding bug fixes that people have sent me. * Making sure the new version works on all the latest O/S's. People on this list can help here. * Packaging this up. This should be fairly easy. It just means adjusting various files in the generic distribution (Makefile.dist, MANIFEST, README, etc...) * Looking after the mailing list. Adding/deleting names and looking after the mailing list archive. Actually this could be a separate function done by somebody else. * Doing the three way split (as mentioned in a previous mail), and making a prototype available. This is where it could get very interesting. With this split, and the ability to write lots of new scripts/programs to generate the list of icons to display, then faces could be used for lots of new things. I was seriously considering redesigning the OpenWindows DeskSet file manager along these lines. When the split has been done, and it's nicely working, then this new version would need to be packaged up, and distributed. The faces mailing list currently has 71 names on it of which four of those are expander aliases. I'd really like to see it developed further but I do realise that I don't have the time to do it. Volunteers? From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Mon Mar 22 08:07:21 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA19780; Mon, 22 Mar 1993 13:07:23 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA19773; Mon, 22 Mar 1993 13:07:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 13:07:21 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: faces Subject: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces X-Face: %Mz-_My%|8Y#+Dghgh,Owh]Y.wswC(Sr"9$Yxo>,y2|lC]st $*`Oi=Xk;O-^xC=eu>[1;(HMb(!:`;V$i'=z{ZjV x.g*4`x70T3%o3O=[3*ZxF6Z12vu` X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with "faces". From the cs.indiana.edu ftp archive today. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu The faces mailing list has moved to cs.indiana.edu. The list names are the same: faces@cs.indiana.edu mails to everyone on the mailing list faces-request@cs.indiana.edu mails to me for subscribe/unsubscribe requests and mailing list administrivia Archives of the mailing list are still available in the cs.indiana.edu anonymous ftp archives, directory /pub/faces/mailing-list. ========================================================================== Something cool to check out ... Marc VanHeyningen has implemented a finger service in the World Wide Web that uses the faces databases to display the fingeree's face/logo along with their finger information. To check it out, reference the URL: http://moose.cs.indiana.edu/finger/gateway If you haven't used WWW, I recommend trying "xmosaic" an X-windows client for WWW. Pre-compiled binaries for DEC, IBM, SGI and Sun architectures are available for anonymous ftp in ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu:/Web/xmosaic. Give the above URL in the Navigate/Open pull-down menu. -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Mar 23 10:32:13 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA13433; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 05:27:56 -0500 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA13428; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 05:27:47 -0500 Via: uk.ac.southampton.ecs; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 10:27:01 +0000 Via: hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:19:56 GMT From: Tim Chown Received: from marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk by hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:34:18 GMT Message-Id: <21096.9303231032@marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces To: kinzler@cs.indiana.edu (Steve Kinzler) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 10:32:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu In-Reply-To: <14553.9303221952@bright.ecs.soton.ac.uk> from "Steve Kinzler" at Mar 22, 93 01:07:21 pm X-Phone: +44 703 593257/593270 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1036 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Steve Kinzler writes: > > Marc VanHeyningen has implemented a finger service in the World Wide Web > that uses the faces databases to display the fingeree's face/logo along > with their finger information. I guess you all know about this, but in case not ... How does this compare to the icsi-finger variant of GNU finger? We run that here and it's very cute. Being based on the GNU finger it has many very nice options. A master gfingerd keeps track of all the users on named clients, so you don't need to know *which* machine to poll, gfinger just reports for all of them, in effect. Tutors like it as it lets them know exactly when their tutees last logged into the system, anywhere (and what they look like, if meetings are rare). If you want to try it out I've put it up for FTP here at ecs.soton.ac.uk (152.78.64.201) under pub/unix as icsi-finger-1.0.17.tar.Z. One of our undergrads fetched it down, so I'm not sure what the official distribution site for it is; I assume a quick archie would reveal that ... Tim From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Mar 23 04:40:52 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA27217; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 09:41:16 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA27144; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 09:40:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 09:40:52 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: T.J.Chown@ecs.southampton.ac.uk Subject: Re: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces Cc: faces X-Face: %Mz-_My%|8Y#+Dghgh,Owh]Y.wswC(Sr"9$Yxo>,y2|lC]st $*`Oi=Xk;O-^xC=eu>[1;(HMb(!:`;V$i'=z{ZjV x.g*4`x70T3%o3O=[3*ZxF6Z12vu` X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with "faces". From the cs.indiana.edu ftp archive today. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Written 23 Mar 1993 10:32:13 by T.J.Chown@ecs.southampton.ac.uk in mail:faces +---------- "Re: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces" ---------- | How does this compare to the icsi-finger variant of GNU finger? I don't think it's really meant to compete with GNU finger, but rather to serve a useful function within WWW. Still, it is more broadly usable than GNU finger since it doesn't require anything special (not faces, not GNU finger) to be installed at the local or the fingered site -- just the WWW client, of course. I haven't gotten around to installing GNU finger here, yet, but I've heard wonderful things about it. The official ICSI distribution is in icsi.berkeley.edu:/pub/stolcke/icsi-finger-*.tar.Z anonymous ftp. -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Mar 23 18:37:06 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09503; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 11:37:34 -0500 Received: from aibn53.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de ([134.104.3.25]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09462; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 11:37:16 -0500 Received: by aibn53.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18599; Tue, 23 Mar 1993 17:37:06 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 17:37:06 +0100 From: souva@aibn53.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Message-Id: <9303231637.AA18599@aibn53.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> To: faces@cs.indiana.edu In-Reply-To: <9303231441.AA17388@mpifrrouter.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> Subject: Re: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces Reply-To: isouvatzis@aibn55.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Return-Receipt-To: isouvatzis@aibn55.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 18.57.11 X-Face: %p,8?Wc#eJ?Mf`-U.`%:}Nqnx1,!1X8DT:^_!9^Xs8a8X-bPWbzPD}Q}[QDh1a Organization: Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications, Paris Received: from davis.res.enst.fr by dameron.res.enst.fr with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA04470; Tue, 23 Mar 93 18:29:15 +0100 Received: by davis.res.enst.fr (16.8/16.2) id AA22775; Tue, 23 Mar 93 18:29:14 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 18:29:14 +0100 From: Philippe-Andre Prindeville Message-Id: <9303231729.AA22775@davis.res.enst.fr> To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Problems with iscs-finger X-Face: >4WM/$ED&E'4zy#c4]"b5^50kZ9W\o}W+e>qU0!;~b|q/.dFb}M4JKOu_gIL[`Zb!=\(t<$ ZoARNta[Qx:";t-A0-l$=tBB=bPzZpsUnUQ*8ZPHUV ../include/fingerpaths.h (cd ../lib/; \ make CC="cc" RANLIB="echo" CFLAGS="-I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ ") cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ error.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ os.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ packet.c x_show_face.c: 36: Can't find include file X11/Xlib.h x_show_face.c: 37: Can't find include file X11/Xutil.h x_show_face.c: 38: Can't find include file X11/StringDefs.h x_show_face.c: 39: Can't find include file X11/Intrinsic.h x_show_face.c: 40: Can't find include file X11/Shell.h x_show_face.c: 42: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Viewport.h x_show_face.c: 43: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Scrollbar.h x_show_face.c: 44: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Box.h x_show_face.c: 45: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Command.h x_show_face.c: 46: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Label.h x_show_face.c: 47: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Dialog.h x_show_face.c: 48: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/AsciiText.h x_show_face.c: 49: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Text.h x_show_face.c: 50: Can't find include file X11/Xaw/Form.h cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ tcp.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ tty.c [ ... ] cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ x_show_face.c [ ... ] cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ alloca.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ flock.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ getusershell.c cc -c -I/usr/include/X11R4/ -I../include/ authuser.c rm -f libfinger.a ar clq libfinger.a error.o os.o packet.o tcp.o tty.o util.o getservhost.o text-finger.o face-finger.o dither.o call.o mail.o read_bitmap.o read_rastfile.o read_x_bitmap.o read_lispmug.o save_bitmap.o save_rastfile.o save_x_bitmap.o save_lispmug.o x_show_face.o sun_show_face.o showface.o bitmap.o userface.o userinfo.o ualarm.o alloca.o flock.o getusershell.o authuser.o echo libfinger.a [ ... ] which strikes me as "pretty weird" to use my most sophisticated technical jargon. I don't know why x_show_face.c seems to spew errors at that particular point, since it isn't (at least not visibly) the file being compiled at that moment. Also, a little ways down the road, x_show_face.c does indeed seem to compile correctly. Any ideas? -Philip From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Wed Mar 24 13:46:43 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA03626; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 06:47:21 -0500 Received: from enst.enst.fr by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA03617; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 06:47:10 -0500 Received: by enst.enst.fr (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA14475; Wed, 24 Mar 93 12:46:43 +0100 Return-Path: Message-Id: <9303241146.AA14475@enst.enst.fr> Organization: Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications, Paris Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 12:46:43 +0100 From: Philippe-Andre Prindeville To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: Problems with iscs-finger X-Face: >4WM/$ED&E'4zy#c4]"b5^50kZ9W\o}W+e>qU0!;~b|q/.dFb}M4JKOu_gIL[`Zb!=\(t<$ ZoARNta[Qx:";t-A0-l$=tBB=bPzZpsUnUQ*8ZPHUV (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 for ) with SMTP; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 12:17:16 GMT From: "Lindsay F. Marshall" Message-Id: Subject: finger To: faces@cs.indiana.edu (Faces Mailing List) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 12:17:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Face: ,%J*lbsqmzpd./ZeNL+.O}#\rwJdMyTLFqP9k[Ti\q0e|\2JW)td#e(SSB7Z|NT=ScIb!Pt U7TRzA7t;P@%y%;H%?,o?w#bqNy5/F67sT>!f#!*yG!H}+/'L#;vPICisEYKD;b@n]o9lTn X.%%nlDSrS4_;xjUZuA@4&ti`xE^S&>y@Qf4nkU$\2W,in%bpM8,Qw^m4o%6OY)y5EY]-SU q Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu "Lindsay F. Marshall" writes: | It's all very well having fancy finger daemons, but a lot of people's | faces are stored under canonical site mail names rather than | individual machine names so it is a wast eof time trying to find them. | Perhaps we need a cleverer finger daemon. Um, follow the MX records to find a suitable finger host? - Cameron Simpson cameron@cse.unsw.edu.au, DoD#743 -- Jones' Law: The man who can smile when things go wrong has found someone to blame it on. From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Wed Mar 24 14:46:12 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15601; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:41:38 -0500 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15595; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:41:36 -0500 Via: uk.ac.southampton.ecs; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:41:05 +0000 Via: hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:33:52 GMT From: Tim Chown Received: from marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk by hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:48:17 GMT Message-Id: <9535.9303241446@marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: finger To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:46:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu In-Reply-To: from "Cameron Simpson" at Mar 24, 93 11:45:15 pm X-Phone: +44 703 593257/593270 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 664 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Cameron Simpson writes: > > Um, follow the MX records to find a suitable finger host? > - Cameron Simpson > cameron@cse.unsw.edu.au, DoD#743 I think the point was that full mail ids are often different to login IDs, and this makes fingering by name a problem. I login as tjc but my mail ID is rewritten on sending to T.J.Chown. Also, from our site we (try to) hide all hosts and as a result fingering someone here at ecs.soton.ac.uk will fail because we don't allow logins on our mail/news gateway machine. So if you want an open finger service I guess you give up a little "security". Having said that, running icsi-finger internally is rewarding Tim From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Wed Mar 24 14:50:01 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15855; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:45:45 -0500 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15850; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:45:42 -0500 Via: uk.ac.southampton.ecs; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:44:45 +0000 Via: hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:37:39 GMT From: Tim Chown Received: from marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk by hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk; Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:52:04 GMT Message-Id: <9570.9303241450@marr.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Faces mailing list has moved; WWW->finger+faces To: isouvatzis@aibn55.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:50:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu In-Reply-To: <9303231637.AA18599@aibn53.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> from "Ignatios Souvatzis" at Mar 23, 93 05:37:06 pm X-Phone: +44 703 593257/593270 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1005 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Ignatios Souvatzis writes: > > It's a nice thing to have, and it's also not too difficult to use as a > picture database the .../lib/faces/de/uni-bonn/cs/ directory, with > some setup of symbolic links. But it gives you pictures for individual > users, not monitoring of anything by picture as faces does it. Sure, fair point, but more than 50% of our users are on PCs so having a flexible textual finger system is important. Face information is available on request for any named user. > I would like (and will do, in fact, if nobody else does it first as > soon as possible) a variant of the faces -H which supports multiple -H > or -H w/o hosts to get a list of all on the ethernet. I already did > (for the ULTRIX DECstations here) a perl script called 'rusers' which > uses finger and understands gnu finger and sun finger output formats. > As soon as I brush it up, I'll put it on the ftp server. Sounds good. If I can run gfinger and get xfaces output that would be more than useful :) Tim From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Wed Mar 24 19:02:38 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA27319; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 12:03:36 -0500 Received: from enst.enst.fr by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA27314; Wed, 24 Mar 1993 12:03:29 -0500 Received: by enst.enst.fr (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA16146; Wed, 24 Mar 93 18:02:38 +0100 Return-Path: Message-Id: <9303241702.AA16146@enst.enst.fr> Organization: Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications, Paris Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 18:02:38 +0100 From: Philippe-Andre Prindeville To: T.J.Chown@ecs.southampton.ac.uk, cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Subject: Re: finger Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu X-Face: >4WM/$ED&E'4zy#c4]"b5^50kZ9W\o}W+e>qU0!;~b|q/.dFb}M4JKOu_gIL[`Zb!=\(t<$ ZoARNta[Qx:";t-A0-l$=tBB=bPzZpsUnUQ*8ZPHUV To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: GUI system monitoring applications X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 804 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu ----- Begin Included Message ----- From hugh@rschp1.anu.edu.au Tue Apr 6 02:49 PDT 1993 From: Hugh Fisher Subject: GUI system monitoring applications To: richb@Aus Date: Tue, 6 Apr 93 19:52:13 EST X-Face: %Y=q|_=@?d$0;1u<%JiKdr~y6W.j4EUl6/>UNBRsq:ZYde6!><;G#F(-qY7CGW0H(^?x1Nv iVV0I,N]qeX35pkh/X7i1!+v668\'j#^Fv)GT=YIyKM)?iCA;U=w5_j#^.P!}O'~[1~F\j`.U[ Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30] I've written a couple of X based applications for monitoring user session records and network machine usage, inspired by (and some code taken from) your faces package. Thanks for writing it. If you'd like to take a look at my follow ups, they are available by anonymous FTP to rschp1.anu.edu.au, file pub/Quinkan-Nyol.tar Hugh Fisher ----- End Included Message ----- From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue May 4 05:23:22 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA23466; Tue, 4 May 1993 14:24:21 -0500 Received: from Sun.COM by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA23459; Tue, 4 May 1993 14:24:19 -0500 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag-bb.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28025; Tue, 4 May 93 12:24:12 PDT Received: from stard.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12814; Tue, 4 May 93 12:23:27 PDT Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA03707; Tue, 4 May 93 12:23:22 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 93 12:23:22 PDT From: Richard.Burridge@Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Burridge) Message-Id: <9305041923.AA03707@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: faces via WWW finger Cc: suthers+@pitt.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 775 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Can anybody help Dan please? ------Forwarded message------ >From suthers+@pitt.edu Tue May 4 12:17 PDT 1993 Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 15:14:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel D Suthers To: richb@stard.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: faces via WWW finger Rich, Do you have any idea where the WWW (world wide web) interface to Finger gets faces from? If I create a face icon and put it in my home as .face, would WWW access it? thanks, ........................................................................... Dan Suthers | LRDC, room 505A suthers+@pitt.edu | 3939 O'Hara Street (412) 624-7036 office | University of Pittsburgh (412) 624-9149 fax | Pittsburgh, PA 15260 ........................................................................... From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue May 4 09:34:21 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA24306; Tue, 4 May 1993 14:34:24 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA24297; Tue, 4 May 1993 14:34:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 14:34:21 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: suthers+@pitt.edu Subject: Re: faces via WWW finger Cc: faces X-Face: ",YmT`]^.d^1GDMh^V}:iF|FhFwrZDL"K+H~JC'{N;8.X{)X\GF+@UKRZ/gPXA@;`$aYP-aj\y'5 P0]L.J1=5"iVNg28p;B7$8!KSt7H[owB9)P/Y^5_Bep*GE#*+`\Fe4_6!>tk#[i2iuGe; X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Written Tue, 4 May 1993 15:14:43 by suthers+@pitt.edu in mail:faces +---------- "faces via WWW finger" ---------- | Do you have any idea where the WWW (world wide web) interface to Finger | gets faces from? It gets it from our faces databases on cs.indiana.edu, which are exactly the faces databases distributed in the faces ftp archive here. To get your face into WWW/Finger, get it into the facedir faces database, which can be done by any of: 1) sending me mail with an X-Face in the header 2) mailing the face to me 2) uploading it to cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces/incoming -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue May 4 11:42:21 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07869; Tue, 4 May 1993 16:41:01 -0500 Received: from csunix.cs.uwec.edu by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07864; Tue, 4 May 1993 16:40:59 -0500 Received: by csunix.cs.uwec.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA09367; Tue, 4 May 1993 16:42:22 -0500 From: tanner@csunix.cs.uwec.edu (root@insight) Message-Id: <9305042142.AA09367@csunix.cs.uwec.edu> Subject: xbm -> faces To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 93 16:42:21 CDT X-Face: Does not work... yet. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0] Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Well after serveral hours of capturing the images of our school, I am ready to convert the .xbm to faces format. My inital try produces faces that are skewed. I striped the .xbm and did the compfaces, did the elm patch and get a X-Faces in the header, but the faces program shows it as all screwed up. Any help? From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue May 4 11:51:59 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09116; Tue, 4 May 1993 16:52:07 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09070; Tue, 4 May 1993 16:51:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 16:51:59 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: tanner@csunix.cs.uwec.edu Subject: Re: xbm -> faces Cc: faces X-Face: ",YmT`]^.d^1GDMh^V}:iF|FhFwrZDL"K+H~JC'{N;8.X{)X\GF+@UKRZ/gPXA@;`$aYP-aj\y'5 P0]L.J1=5"iVNg28p;B7$8!KSt7H[owB9)P/Y^5_Bep*GE#*+`\Fe4_6!>tk#[i2iuGe; X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Written Tue, 4 May 93 16:42:21 CDT by tanner@csunix.cs.uwec.edu in mail:faces +---------- "xbm -> faces" ---------- | Well after serveral hours of capturing the images of our school, I am | ready to convert the .xbm to faces format. My inital try produces faces | that are skewed. I striped the .xbm and did the compfaces, did the elm | patch and get a X-Faces in the header, but the faces program shows it as | all screwed up. Any help? Are you converting the .xbm format into ikon format? compfaces only works with ikon format. Here's what works for me: 1) xbm2ikon < face.xbm > face.ikon using the script below 2) compface < face.ikon > face If you'd like to submit the images for the facedir database, you can ftp upload them to cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces/incoming -- XBM format please. -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ -------------- CUT HERE --------------- #!/bin/sh # # @(#)xbm2ikon 1.4 91/05/06 # # Copyright (c) Steve Kinzler - March 1991. # # Permission is given to distribute these sources, as long as the # copyright messages are not removed, and no monies are exchanged. # # No responsibility is taken for any errors on inaccuracies inherent # either to the comments or the code of this program, but if reported # to me, then an attempt will be made to fix them. PATH=$PATH:/usr/bin/X11; export PATH # xbm2ikon - convert an X11 bitmap to a Blit ikon bitmap # stdin/stdout filter # requires some bitmap filters from the pbmplus package # kludge by kinzler@cs.indiana.edu xbmtopbm | pbmtoicon | sed -e 1,2d -e '$s/$/,/' | tr -d '\011\012' | tr ',' '\012' | pr -l1 -t -w22 -3 -s, | sed -e 's/$/,/' -e 's/\(0x....\)\(0x....\)\(0x....\),/\1,\2,\3,/' From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Thu May 27 09:02:12 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09858; Thu, 27 May 1993 14:02:13 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA09852; Thu, 27 May 1993 14:02:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 14:02:12 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: faces Subject: Faces mention in BYTE magazine X-Face: ",YmT`]^.d^1GDMh^V}:iF|FhFwrZDL"K+H~JC'{N;8.X{)X\GF+@UKRZ/gPXA@;`$aYP-aj\y'5 P0]L.J1=5"iVNg28p;B7$8!KSt7H[owB9)P/Y^5_Bep*GE#*+`\Fe4_6!>tk#[i2iuGe; X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu In case anyone missed this: From BYTE Magazine, Dec `92, Vol 17, No 14, p 256 "Software Corner", Barry Nance ------------------------------------------------------------------------ UNIX/Ben Smith "Saving Face" For several years now, the Usenix organization has been encouraging attendees at its conferences to save face -- to have the image of their face recocorded for the faces database. The project is geared to humanizing communication around the worldwide Unix network and to adding graphics to appropriate Unix utilities. The face-image viewer is a program named xface, an X Window System client program. The collection of utilities, called faces, is maintained by Rich Burridge of Sun Microsystems (Australia) and is available on most Unix archive servers and BIX. Faces works like this: You store your character-based compressed image in your home directory and instruct your mail-composing program to include a pointer to this file. Whenever you send an E-mail message, your image is included. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It ain't completely accurate, but at least it's publicity ... -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Thu May 27 05:19:32 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA12790; Thu, 27 May 1993 14:25:20 -0500 Received: from Sun.COM by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA12781; Thu, 27 May 1993 14:25:15 -0500 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag-bb.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26551; Thu, 27 May 93 12:20:13 PDT Received: from stard.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26146; Thu, 27 May 93 12:19:51 PDT Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02919; Thu, 27 May 93 12:19:32 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 93 12:19:32 PDT From: Richard.Burridge@Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Burridge) Message-Id: <9305271919.AA02919@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: Faces mention in BYTE magazine X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 142 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu > From BYTE Magazine, Dec `92, Vol 17, No 14, p 256 I got $50.00 for that. The drinks are on me. Pity he didn't ask me to proof-read it... From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Fri Jul 16 03:12:31 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15846; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 08:12:40 -0500 Received: from natinst.com by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA15786; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 08:12:36 -0500 Received: from falcon.natinst.com by natinst.com with SMTP id AA10680 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Fri, 16 Jul 1993 08:12:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.natinst.com by falcon.natinst.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17737; Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:12:32 CDT Message-Id: <9307161312.AA17737@falcon.natinst.com> To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: faces 1.6.1 patch X-Face: "^#-@x).`Y:*#nK7dR+K3Bp1\FN;ElbfD&CjIB87"q^{]]c\P@=qP"%Bqiv,}M1[~F,#8$l ;0f|5X6w%"r\+`ds2l$l2p'"UJI)JEQaEz@x+ZGp!bcXItYXWsKqzM_oN:}kMPtO]t:Ma#"4'`z4B! -w'01m2 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:12:31 -0500 From: Dean Luick Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Hi, I'm not on this list but the faces documentation said that patches should be posted here. I have a slight enhancement for the X11 version of faces. You may do with it what you will. 1) Add a border width option. 2) Change the fg&bg of the pixmap GC and the tile GC. The pixmap GC (gc) now has a fg of black and a background of white while the tile GC (tilegc) has the fg & bg in the options. The second change is obviously debatable. I did it so that I could make the unused portion of the faces window look like my background. Your milage may vary. If you don't like the 2nd change, remove the 2nd band in x11.c. dean Dean Luick National Instruments *** extern.h.ORIG Mon Nov 18 22:00:48 1991 --- extern.h Fri Jul 16 07:28:05 1993 *************** *** 82,87 **** --- 82,88 ---- extern int facetype ; /* Type of face file found. */ extern int firsttime ; /* Zeroised after first mail/printer check. */ extern int flashes ; /* Number of flashes for arrival of new mail. */ + extern int border_width ; /* Border width of window. */ extern int fromc_found ; /* Set if "From:" line found during processing. */ extern int froms_found ; /* Set if "From " line found during processing. */ extern int height ; /* Height in pixels of faces display. */ *** faces.h.ORIG Mon Nov 18 22:00:49 1991 --- faces.h Fri Jul 16 07:29:45 1993 *************** *** 102,110 **** enum mon_type { MONNEW, MONALL, MONPRINTER, MONPROG, MONUSERS } ; /* X resources used by faces. */ ! enum res_type { R_WINGEOM, R_ICONGEOM, R_FGCOLOR, R_BGCOLOR, ! R_FONT, R_BGICON, R_PERIOD, R_BELL, ! R_FLASH, R_LOWER, R_RAISE, R_BUT1CLR, R_DISPHOST, #ifdef AUDIO_SUPPORT R_AUDIO, R_AUDIOCMD, R_BELLFILE #endif /*AUDIO_SUPPORT*/ --- 102,111 ---- enum mon_type { MONNEW, MONALL, MONPRINTER, MONPROG, MONUSERS } ; /* X resources used by faces. */ ! enum res_type { R_WINGEOM, R_ICONGEOM, R_FGCOLOR, R_BGCOLOR, ! R_FONT, R_BGICON, R_PERIOD, R_BELL, ! R_FLASH, R_BORDERWIDTH, R_LOWER, R_RAISE, ! R_BUT1CLR, R_DISPHOST, #ifdef AUDIO_SUPPORT R_AUDIO, R_AUDIOCMD, R_BELLFILE #endif /*AUDIO_SUPPORT*/ *** main.c.ORIG Mon Nov 18 22:00:47 1991 --- main.c Fri Jul 16 07:33:45 1993 *************** *** 63,68 **** --- 63,69 ---- "period", /* Integer: period in seconds between checks. */ "bell", /* Integer: number of beeps for new arrival. */ "flash", /* Integer: number of flashes for new arrival. */ + "borderWidth", /* Integer: border width of window. */ "lower", /* Boolean: lower window if no mail. */ "raise", /* Boolean: raise window on update? */ "button1clear", /* Boolean: mouse button 1 clear window? */ *************** *** 150,155 **** --- 151,157 ---- int facetype ; /* Type of face file found. */ int firsttime = 1 ; /* Zeroised after first mail/printer check. */ int flashes = 0 ; /* Number of flashes for arrival of new mail. */ + int border_width = 2 ; /* Border width of window. */ int fromc_found = 0 ; /* Set if "From:" line found during processing. */ int froms_found = 0 ; /* Set if "From " line found during processing. */ int height ; /* Height in pixels of faces display. */ *************** *** 743,751 **** if (get_str_resource(R_FONT, str)) read_str(&fontname, str) ; if (get_str_resource(R_BGICON, str)) read_str(&bgicon, str) ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_PERIOD, &intval)) period = intval ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_BELL, &intval)) beeps = intval ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_FLASH, &intval)) flashes = intval ; if (get_bool_resource(R_LOWER, &boolval)) lowerwindow = boolval ; if (get_bool_resource(R_RAISE, &boolval)) raisewindow = boolval ; --- 745,754 ---- if (get_str_resource(R_FONT, str)) read_str(&fontname, str) ; if (get_str_resource(R_BGICON, str)) read_str(&bgicon, str) ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_PERIOD, &intval)) period = intval ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_BELL, &intval)) beeps = intval ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_FLASH, &intval)) flashes = intval ; ! if (get_int_resource(R_BORDERWIDTH,&intval)) border_width = intval ; if (get_bool_resource(R_LOWER, &boolval)) lowerwindow = boolval ; if (get_bool_resource(R_RAISE, &boolval)) raisewindow = boolval ; *** x11.c.ORIG Mon Nov 18 22:00:50 1991 --- x11.c Fri Jul 16 07:36:06 1993 *************** *** 58,64 **** #define F_ICON 0 /* Icon index to frame array. */ #define F_WINDOW 1 /* Window index to frame array. */ - #define FACES_BORDER_WIDTH 2 #define FRAME_MASK (ButtonPressMask | ExposureMask | \ ButtonMotionMask | KeyPressMask) #define ICON_MASK ExposureMask --- 58,63 ---- *************** *** 364,374 **** init_font() ; gc_mask = GCFont | GCForeground | GCBackground | GCGraphicsExposures ; gc_val.font = sfont->fid ; ! gc_val.foreground = foregnd ; ! gc_val.background = backgnd ; gc_val.graphics_exposures = False ; gc = XCreateGC(dpy, root, gc_mask, &gc_val) ; tilegc = XCreateGC(dpy, root, gc_mask, &gc_val) ; if (depth == 1) XSetFillStyle(dpy, tilegc, FillOpaqueStippled) ; else XSetFillStyle(dpy, tilegc, FillTiled) ; --- 363,375 ---- init_font() ; gc_mask = GCFont | GCForeground | GCBackground | GCGraphicsExposures ; gc_val.font = sfont->fid ; ! gc_val.foreground = BlackPixel(dpy, screen) ; ! gc_val.background = WhitePixel(dpy, screen) ; gc_val.graphics_exposures = False ; gc = XCreateGC(dpy, root, gc_mask, &gc_val) ; + gc_val.foreground = foregnd ; + gc_val.background = backgnd ; tilegc = XCreateGC(dpy, root, gc_mask, &gc_val) ; if (depth == 1) XSetFillStyle(dpy, tilegc, FillOpaqueStippled) ; else XSetFillStyle(dpy, tilegc, FillTiled) ; *************** *** 576,582 **** winattrs.event_mask = FRAME_MASK ; frame[F_WINDOW] = XCreateWindow(dpy, root, size.x, size.y, ! size.width, size.height, FACES_BORDER_WIDTH, CopyFromParent, InputOutput, CopyFromParent, CWBackPixel | CWBorderPixel | CWEventMask, &winattrs) ; --- 577,583 ---- winattrs.event_mask = FRAME_MASK ; frame[F_WINDOW] = XCreateWindow(dpy, root, size.x, size.y, ! size.width, size.height, border_width, CopyFromParent, InputOutput, CopyFromParent, CWBackPixel | CWBorderPixel | CWEventMask, &winattrs) ; *************** *** 583,589 **** winattrs.event_mask = ICON_MASK ; frame[F_ICON] = XCreateWindow(dpy, root, ! ix, iy, imagewidth, imageheight, FACES_BORDER_WIDTH, CopyFromParent, InputOutput, CopyFromParent, CWBackPixel | CWBorderPixel | CWEventMask, &winattrs) ; --- 584,590 ---- winattrs.event_mask = ICON_MASK ; frame[F_ICON] = XCreateWindow(dpy, root, ! ix, iy, imagewidth, imageheight, border_width, CopyFromParent, InputOutput, CopyFromParent, CWBackPixel | CWBorderPixel | CWEventMask, &winattrs) ; From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Mon Aug 16 08:59:24 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07602; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:59:25 -0500 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07595; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:59:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:59:24 -0500 From: "Steve Kinzler" To: faces Subject: Re: FACES Archive Updated at UUNET X-Face: ",YmT`]^.d^1GDMh^V}:iF|FhFwrZDL"K+H~JC'{N;8.X{)X\GF+@UKRZ/gPXA@;`$aYP-aj\y'5 P0]L.J1=5"iVNg28p;B7$8!KSt7H[owB9)P/Y^5_Bep*GE#*+`\Fe4_6!>tk#[i2iuGe; X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces. Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Written 11 Aug 93 by tale@ten.uu.net in news:comp.org.usenix +---------- "FACES Archive Updated at UUNET" ---------- | The archive of images made by the USENIX FaceSaver project has been | updated on ftp.uu.net in the /published/usenix/faces directory. ... A version of this archive with the images in 48x48 XBM format is now available in cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces/facesaver.tar.Z. The file is about 2.6 megabytes and, when unpacked, is structured with the images as AIN/DOM/USER/face.xbm. So, what's this good for? With the "faces" software available in cs.indiana.edu:/pub/faces, you can use this archive for displaying a person's face when you receive email from them. Also, you can quickly overview the entire archive with the "facesall" script there. This archive is also installed for use with the WWW->Finger gateway available at http://cs.indiana.edu/finger/gateway. This is also the Finger interface built into the xmosaic program (see comp.infosystems.www and ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu:/Mosaic). -- from the brain of Steve Kinzler /o)\ kinzler@cs.indiana.edu an organ with a mind of its own \(o/ Cruet consumptive; myriad photoemission; procure persistent. From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Aug 17 04:43:52 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA06337; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 19:57:05 -0500 Received: from gorton.anu.edu.au by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA06332; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 19:57:02 -0500 Received: by gorton.anu.edu.au (4.1/1.4) id AA06875; Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:43:54 EST From: jaa101@syseng.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) Message-Id: <9308162343.AA06875@gorton.anu.edu.au> Subject: son of X-Face: To: faces@cs.indiana.edu Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 9:43:52 EST X-Face: rUK3oMwdIS>EJ!*~|~H$SL4S%-}pU+OhHV"`Q}$Dc<~`Tn"N{RjEJV&9;mM}`@P>F;{+]^2 gO,tx/g0M0[tNFyGMNEjNEyoz06a>{r6Ez3Km}'RN`CpF"$[PmCzGD_}|N\*f2a'EOdg-4h 7VIL,<0@:t;C/j`^X@_=ckuloh`sGE[eU&W=A#ge3~+"rq9F,r6=9y!V;m};\t],cbJ/|kM 5ruHFZfE(]Z}jflI%K9O/A*d{O]'3Jz X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu With `multimedia' computing taking off even for some pretty low end machines it looks like X-Face is gaining wider acceptance. As the author of the compface routines which define the `X-Face' standard I've had contacts from people interested in using X-Face in products and in extending the standard. Apparently customers want colour. I'm happy to be involved in doing the work required to create an extension to the standard. I can probably clean up the existing compface routines at the same time. What I need is feedback about what people want and what is practical. Also if I proceed I'd like some sample data to play with. I can scan in colour here but images from a single site tend to be similar. I'd hate to spend time tuning my compression and then find that data from elsewhere compressed poorly. I expect 48x48x8+colour map will be the easiest for me to work with. I'm sure I can convert from any of the popular standards. A quick list of issues that have occured to me are: Resolution. Almost certainly still 48x48. Colour map usage. Per face maps or a fixed map for all faces? Other possibilities? How many colour map entries can users afford? Can we support hardware with very few available colours? Should the compression be lossless as now or can we afford lossy compression with colour? Since we have colours will we use dithering? Dithering obviously helps alot with a limited number of available colours but it makes compression harder. Will the images look the same on different hardware or will more available colours allow a better image. I'm assuming existing standards (JPEG comes to mind) are unsuitable for this purpose. Please let me know if not and save me lots of work. How many data can we stand in the headers? Given that `X-Face' is usually three to four lines it's hard to see a colour version using less than six lines. Backward compatibility is impossible without choosing a new header title, say `X-Image'. Should an old style, one bit image be available from an `X-Image' along with a colour version or should we just include both an `X-Image' and an `X-Face'. Speaking of standards, this is all unofficial at this stage. What do people think of moving towards a `Proposed Standard' RFC or at least an `Experimental' RFC. TIA for any feedback. I may post this to an appropriate newsgroup depending on the response from this list. Finally, if you know of a good reference on image compression that may be useful let me know. There's likely to be some recent work I'm unaware of. -- James Ashton System Administrator VK1XJA Department of Systems Engineering Voice +61 6 249 0681 Research School of Physical Sciences and Engineering FAX +61 6 249 2698 Australian National University Email James.Ashton@anu.edu.au Canberra ACT 0200 Australia From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Mon Aug 16 11:40:55 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07621; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 20:42:29 -0500 Received: from thalidomide.lucid.com by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA07616; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 20:42:27 -0500 Received: by thalidomide.lucid.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21579; Mon, 16 Aug 93 18:40:55 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 18:40:55 PDT Message-Id: <9308170140.AA21579@thalidomide.lucid.com> X-Windows: No hardware is safe. From: Jamie Zawinski Original-Sender: jwz@lucid.com To: jaa101@syseng.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: son of X-Face: In-Reply-To: James Ashton's message of Tue 17-Aug-93 9:43:52 EST <9308162343.AA06875@gorton.anu.edu.au> References: <9308162343.AA06875@gorton.anu.edu.au> Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu James Ashton wrote: > > Resolution. Almost certainly still 48x48. I think restricting the image size so arbitrarily is a bad idea; 48x48 is really tiny! All of my other icons are 64x64, and they just don't look all that large. The same people who want color today will want bigger tomorrow. > I'm assuming existing standards (JPEG comes to mind) are > unsuitable for this purpose. Please let me know if not and > save me lots of work. I think a good approach might be to use the XPM3 format as the baseline, and find some way of compressing it efficiently. It's a very nice format, in that it allows you to efficiently tune your image for color, grayscale, and monochrome devices without duplicating data. Also there is a good library for managing color allocation, etc. > Backward compatibility is impossible without choosing a new > header title, say `X-Image'. You could put a magic number in the new format that is unlikely to occur at the beginning of the old format. For example, some character which the old format doesn't use. (I don't know how practical this is.) Or just put a checksum in the new format; if the checksum doesn't match, assume it's the old format. That should be foolproof for non-corrupted images. -- Jamie From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Aug 17 22:57:38 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA10143; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:03:08 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA10136; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:03:04 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA24569 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:03:21 +1000 Return-Path: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Received: From fuligin With LocalMail ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:57:39 +1000 From: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au (Cameron Simpson) To: jaa101@deakin.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:57:38 +1000 Subject: son of X-Face: Reply-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Return-Receipt-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Cc: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au Message-Id: Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu James Ashton writes: | Apparently customers want colour. Argh! | I expect 48x48x8+colour map will be the easiest for me to work with. Perhaps you should consider 48x48x9 (giving 3x3x3 `full-colour' resolution) which would obviate the need for a colour map. | Resolution. Almost certainly still 48x48. Sounds right, small and will fit neatly with existing faces. | Colour map usage. Per face maps or a fixed map for all faces? | Other possibilities? How many colour map entries can users | afford? Can we support hardware with very few available | colours? Rather than a colour map, a simplescheme as described above might be the go. For example, xv-3.00 uses a standard 256 cells map for full colour images which I suspect is a 3x3x2 fill of the colour cube. | Should the compression be lossless as now or can we afford | lossy compression with colour? Given the low resolution of the image to start with, lossy compression - might not actually gain you much spacewise - might blur an already grainy image | Since we have colours will we use dithering? Dithering | obviously helps alot with a limited number of available colours | but it makes compression harder. | | Will the images look the same on different hardware or will | more available colours allow a better image. I think you should assume some reasonably `ideal' hardware and put hooks in the display code for accomodating different gamma factors for the RGB components to tune the image for a particular display. | How many data can we stand in the headers? Given that `X-Face' | is usually three to four lines it's hard to see a colour | version using less than six lines. | Backward compatibility is impossible without choosing a new | header title, say `X-Image'. Should an old style, one bit | image be available from an `X-Image' along with a colour | version or should we just include both an `X-Image' and an | `X-Face'. How about X-Face-RGB or X-Face-Colour, basically to keep the X-Face prefix? How about: - on colour (or greyscale) displays use the colour header if supplied, else the 1 bit version - vice versa for 1 bit displays - be prepared to dither colour down to 1 bit if there's no 1 bit version and we have a 1 bit display Personally I think we should encourage use of only one header in a message, but the code should accomodate both. | Speaking of standards, this is all unofficial at this stage. What do | people think of moving towards a `Proposed Standard' RFC or at least an | `Experimental' RFC. Why not? Sound like a good idea. - Cameron Simpson cameron@cse.unsw.edu.au, DoD#743 -- Sam Jones on the Nine Types of User: X-user - "Will you look at those. . .um, that resolution, quite impressive, really." Advantages: Using the cutting-edge in graphics technology. Disadvantages: Has little or no idea how to use the cutting-edge in graphics technology. Symptoms: Fuzzy hands, blindness Real Case: When I was off duty, two users sat down in front of me at DEC station 5000/200s that systems was reconfiguring. I suppressed my laughter while, for twenty minutes, they sat down and did their best to act like they were doing exectly what they wanted to do, even though they couldn't log in. From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Aug 17 23:13:58 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA11015; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:21:59 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA11008; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:21:53 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA24968 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:22:05 +1000 Return-Path: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Received: From fuligin With LocalMail ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 13:13:59 +1000 From: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au (Cameron Simpson) To: Jamie Zawinski Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 13:13:58 +1000 Subject: Re: son of X-Face: Reply-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Return-Receipt-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Cc: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au Message-Id: Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu | James Ashton wrote: | > Resolution. Almost certainly still 48x48. | | I think restricting the image size so arbitrarily is a bad idea; 48x48 is | really tiny! All of my other icons are 64x64, and they just don't look all | that large. The same people who want color today will want bigger tomorrow. I used to think this way too, but it uses up so much screen real estate. (And all the xloads I have across the top of my screen are 50x50, so nyahh! :-). Some problems with allowing arbitrary sized images are: - they don't tesselate with each other. - the images rapidly get too big to pump around as mail headers. I fear the day when the headers outweigh the message text by orders of magnitude. Now one way of solving the size problem is to dither the image down to whatever size is in use at display time, but for grainy images (i.e. 64x64) this dithering is going to blur things a lot, and for non-grainy images (256x256 or whatever) the scaled down version may well lose important details, else why was such resolution needed in the first place? | I think a good approach might be to use the XPM3 format as the baseline, and | find some way of compressing it efficiently. It's a very nice format, in | that it allows you to efficiently tune your image for color, grayscale, and | monochrome devices without duplicating data. Also there is a good library | for managing color allocation, etc. Where could one find the spec for this? - Cameron Simpson cameron@cse.unsw.edu.au, DoD#743 -- !Peeve: doing an ol' fashioned manual spell check, I find "Himalayan" defined in my Merriam-Webster New Kollegiate Diktionary only as "any of a breed of small white domesticated rabbit..." Huh? - David Farley, dgf1@midway.uchicago.edu From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Mon Aug 16 13:25:58 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA11901; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:36:13 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA11895; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:36:11 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA25505 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:36:11 +1000 Return-Path: Received: From thalidomide.lucid.com By jarrah.cs.unsw.OZ.AU With Smtp ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 13:30:10 +1000 Received: by thalidomide.lucid.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21758; Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:25:58 PDT From: Jamie Zawinski To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:25:58 PDT Message-Id: <9308170325.AA21758@thalidomide.lucid.com> X-Windows: Power tools for power fools. Cc: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au Subject: Re: son of X-Face: In-Reply-To: Cameron Simpson's message of Tue 17-Aug-93 13:13:58 +1000 References: Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Cameron Simpson wrote: > > | I think restricting the image size so arbitrarily is a bad idea; 48x48 is > | really tiny! All of my other icons are 64x64, and they just don't look all > | that large. The same people who want color today will want bigger tomorrow. > > I used to think this way too, but it uses up so much screen real estate. But that's the point: as DPI goes up, the icons get *smaller*. They don't take up more mm on the glass, they just shrink. Bigger pixel counts don't translate to more screen real estate over time, they just translate to better image quality. > - the images rapidly get too big to pump around as mail headers. > I fear the day when the headers outweigh the message text by orders > of magnitude. They don't get big unless you make them big. If someone doesn't want their headers to swell, then they'll just use a 48x48 image, right? > | I think a good approach might be to use the XPM3 format as the baseline, > > Where could one find the spec for this? export.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/xpm3.2g.tar.Z or something close to that. I think a slightly older version also comes with X11R5. The pbmplus toolkit can convert to xpm too. -- Jamie From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Wed Aug 18 00:17:37 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA13449; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 23:18:34 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA13443; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 23:18:22 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA27112 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:18:39 +1000 Return-Path: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Received: From fuligin With LocalMail ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:17:40 +1000 From: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au (Cameron Simpson) To: Jamie Zawinski Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:17:37 +1000 Subject: Re: son of X-Face: Reply-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Return-Receipt-To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au Cc: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au Message-Id: Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Jamie (I think) wrote: | I think restricting the image size so arbitrarily is a bad idea; 48x48 is | really tiny! All of my other icons are 64x64, and they just don't look all | that large. The same people who want color today will want bigger tomorrow. I wrote: | I used to think this way too, but it uses up so much screen real estate. Jamie Zawinski writes: | But that's the point: as DPI goes up, the icons get *smaller*. They don't | take up more mm on the glass, they just shrink. Bigger pixel counts don't | translate to more screen real estate over time, they just translate to better | image quality. Truely, as DPI goes up, actual size goes down, but DPI doesn't go up very fast. I have had a 1280x1024 1 bit screen for the past 4 years and - I use twm, whose _major_ attraction for me is the Icon Mangler which gives me a popup menu of window names rather than icons, which consume much space - I have turfed all my window borders and titles (I think they clutter things) - my root window access is a 3 pixel strip across the top of the screen (easy to aim at, just slam!-click) - the next 100 pixels down is a console window and faces and xloads and a clock - the bottom 900 pixels is vertically split into two windows; a shell and an editor - I still don't think I have enough screen real estate. I want manuals off to the right and a browser to the left and a calendar above and ... This is on an HP/Apollo. One of these days I'll migrate to a Solaris box I expect (mostly for the grunt). I suspect I'll have to squeeze into an 1152x900 screen for that. Ouch. My point is that high res screens are still very expensive (high res colour extremely expensive) and I don't see 2560x2048 pixel screens coming any time soon. (But I want, I really do, 2x the current res and 1.5x the current DPI). I agree that more DPI means better image quality, but we're not getting more DPI. DPIwise my screen is still more or less top-of-the-line for desktop machines (barring pure full-on graphics workstations) as it was 4 years ago. | > - the images rapidly get too big to pump around as mail headers. | > I fear the day when the headers outweigh the message text by orders | > of magnitude. | | They don't get big unless you make them big. If someone doesn't want their | headers to swell, then they'll just use a 48x48 image, right? In a multimedia environment people won't even consider it. But those of us outside such an environment have to deal with the fallout. | > | I think a good approach might be to use the XPM3 format as the baseline, | > Where could one find the spec for this? | export.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/xpm3.2g.tar.Z or something close to that. | I think a slightly older version also comes with X11R5. The pbmplus | toolkit can convert to xpm too. Thanks, I'll go look. - Cameron Simpson cameron@cse.unsw.edu.au, DoD#743 -- If Brawny wants to print something on its paper towels, it should print chainsaws or Monster Trucks or maybe scantily-clad large-breasted women. None of this duckie crap. - Alex Elliott, The Lemming. From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Aug 17 09:39:45 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA14108; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 23:40:33 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA14103; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 23:40:30 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA27811 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:40:43 +1000 Return-Path: Received: From gorton.anu.edu.au By jarrah.cs.unsw.OZ.AU With Smtp ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:39:58 +1000 Received: by gorton.anu.edu.au (4.1/1.4) id AA06996; Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:39:46 EST From: jaa101@deakin.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) To: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:39:45 EST Message-Id: <9308170439.AA06996@gorton.anu.edu.au> Subject: resolution wars X-Face: rUK3oMwdIS>EJ!*~|~H$SL4S%-}pU+OhHV"`Q}$Dc<~`Tn"N{RjEJV&9;mM}`@P>F;{+]^2 gO,tx/g0M0[tNFyGMNEjNEyoz06a>{r6Ez3Km}'RN`CpF"$[PmCzGD_}|N\*f2a'EOdg-4h 7VIL,<0@:t;C/j`^X@_=ckuloh`sGE[eU&W=A#ge3~+"rq9F,r6=9y!V;m};\t],cbJ/|kM 5ruHFZfE(]Z}jflI%K9O/A*d{O]'3Jz X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Just to let you all know my views on why we should keep 48x48 faces. Even at one bit deep the faces are recognisable, with colour they should be even more so. Screen resolution is not increasing. 100dpi screens have been around for many years and I've yet to see substantially higher resolution. Colour screens in particular have technological problems going further. The reason there is no big push is that no one can see the pixels at higher res anyway. Half inch images are a good size. Screen real estate is valuable and people would rather not use more than necessary. Variable size icons are a pain to tile. Compatibility with existing versions of the faces software becomes an issue here. Higher res means more bandwidth. -- James Ashton System Administrator VK1XJA Department of Systems Engineering Voice +61 6 249 0681 Research School of Physical Sciences and Engineering FAX +61 6 249 2698 Australian National University Email James.Ashton@anu.edu.au Canberra ACT 0200 Australia From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Mon Aug 16 15:45:37 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA17133; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 00:47:58 -0500 Received: from usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA17128; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 00:47:55 -0500 Received: by usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU id AA29756 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for faces@cs.indiana.edu); Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:48:11 +1000 Return-Path: Received: From Sun.COM By jarrah.cs.unsw.OZ.AU With Smtp ; Tue, 17 Aug 93 15:46:27 +1000 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag.Eng.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06400; Mon, 16 Aug 93 22:45:47 PDT Received: from stard.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00405; Mon, 16 Aug 93 22:45:54 PDT Received: by stard.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06009; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:45:37 +0800 From: Rich.Burridge@eng.sun.com (Rich Burridge) To: cameron@cs.unsw.oz.au, Jamie Zawinski Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:45:37 -0700 Message-Id: <9308170545.AA06009@stard.Eng.Sun.COM> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) Subject: Re: son of X-Face: Cc: faces@cs.unsw.oz.au, jaa101@deakin.anu.edu.au Content-Length: 1988 Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu > | I think restricting the image size so arbitrarily is a bad idea; 48x48 is > | really tiny! All of my other icons are 64x64, and they just don't look all > | that large. The same people who want color today will want bigger tomorrow. Let's talk interested parties here. I know that Dan Heller has approached James for color X-Face:'s for inclusion in the Z-Mail mailtool product. This runs on Unix, DOS and the Mac. Somebody from Microsoft approached me to include X-Face: in their mailtool; I suspect they've approached James too by now. There could be others... We're talking influential software here; it's no longer a case of just putting up a list of icons in a row as mail comes in. It's inclusion of a visual representation of the sender in a special window when viewing a mail message. I predict that 128x128x8 color images will be required soon. Whatever we choose now should allow for this possible expansion. There are all those Usenix FaceSaver images out there. I know they were 128x128 grayscale images a couple of years ago. Are they saving them as color images yet? My own feeling is that the size of the image shouldn't be fixed; it should be included in the data. The XPM standard is nice for this. I easily added XPM "view by content" support to Sun's file mangler. There are standard libraries routines that can be used. You can have as many (or as few) colors as you want. You can edit the files with a text editor. Another approach is to use a standard palette of colors. The Sun DeskSet tools use a palette of 72 "standard" colors. This works well, and leaves slots free for other tools to use. If XPM is used, then I suggest the mono X-Face: should be converted to use either XBM or the "mono" part of XPM. Preferably the latter. XPM allows you to define not only a color representation, but a mono equivalent in the same file. This might be useful if transmission has to be over low bandwidth lines. I definitely believe that an RFC should be written. From faces-request@cs.indiana.edu Tue Aug 17 05:22:17 1993 Received: by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA05187; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 09:45:40 -0500 Received: from LOBSTER.WELLFLEET.COM by moose.cs.indiana.edu (5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA05169; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 09:45:35 -0500 Received: from lemming.wellfleet (lemming.wellfleet.com) by lobster.wellfleet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06009; Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:13:39 EDT Received: by lemming.wellfleet (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22000; Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:22:17 EDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:22:17 EDT From: psmith@wellfleet.com (Paul Smith) Message-Id: <9308171322.AA22000@lemming.wellfleet> To: jaa101@syseng.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) Cc: faces@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: son of X-Face: In-Reply-To: <9308162343.AA06875@gorton.anu.edu.au> References: <9308162343.AA06875@gorton.anu.edu.au> Reply-To: psmith@wellfleet.com Errors-To: faces-request@cs.indiana.edu [] Regarding son of X-Face:; [] jaa101@syseng.anu.edu.au (James Ashton) writes: ja> Resolution. Almost certainly still 48x48. I'm afraid I agree with Jamie and Rich on this, *especially* if you're going to be generating an RFC (which I think is a great idea): I don't think we should mandate an icon size. Definitely suggest one, and make it the default, and even go so far as to tweak the compression for a certain size (or maybe use a tuned algorithm for 48x48 or 64x64, and a generic algorithm for larger ones?) But it seems a bit short-sighted on our part if we seriously restrict the size. Face display programs can offer the user a choice of how to do displays, which is where you want that choice anyway: the viewer can crop, shrink, display full-size, or not display large faces at all. You could even have a viewer that shrunk the icon, then if you clicked on it it would pop up the full face. Or whatever. The point is,